Sad day for Mxsmanic

In article 94be11d7-f0cb-4b92-b98e-36585bce1806
@q11g2000vbn.googlegroups.com, says...

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Really, and how was your landing?

I wasn't allowed to land on my first lesson and I would doubt anyone
is but I'm sure your hoping to compare my first lesson to how I, or a
complete novice with zero aircraft experience, would land a commercial
airliner. Landing a small Cessna 152 (with NO AUTOPILOT) requires
manual control of pitch and throttle to retain the required descent
rate and localiser following. Landing an airliner can all be done via
the Autoland system with the press of a few buttons. It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. MOST real life landings are done
with this method

??? Most?

Certainly not.

--
Duncan

*It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. *MOST real life landings are done
with this method

??? Most?

Certainly not.

--
Duncan

Duncan

So do YOU believe a pilot of a 737 or 747 hand flys an entire STAR
approach, captures the ILS localiser and glideslope, whilst keeping
critical control of his altitude and reducing airspeed and deployment
of flaps ALL by hand. Commercial pilots use the autopilot's approach
system at the very LEAST to get established on the localiser and
control the descent on the glideslope whilst they manually reduce the
desired speed (still under the autopilots autohrottle control) on the
Mode Control Panel

Watch this video of the final stages of a 747-400 approach and landing
into San Fransisco. This is a typical landing. The pilot
disconnected the autopilot at a few hundred feet but this aircraft and
runway 28L could have enabled him to perform a full autoland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ShBOtPiuNM

As you can clearly witness the majority of the input required by the
pilot to maintain flight, approach and landing is via the MCP on the
glareshield

Ibby


Ibby

In article 02f02df5-278d-42e2-b0ee-aa5271b2f795
@q11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...
*It doesn't have
to be done manually, you do NOT have to control the yoke or touch the
thrust levers until on the ground. *MOST real life landings are done
with this method

??? Most?

Certainly not.

--
Duncan

Duncan

So do YOU believe a pilot of a 737 or 747 hand flys an entire STAR
approach, captures the ILS localiser and glideslope, whilst keeping
critical control of his altitude and reducing airspeed and deployment
of flaps ALL by hand. Commercial pilots use the autopilot's approach
system at the very LEAST to get established on the localiser and
control the descent on the glideslope whilst they manually reduce the
desired speed (still under the autopilots autohrottle control) on the
Mode Control Panel

Relevance? (we're (you were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).


Watch this video of the final stages of a 747-400 approach and landing
into San Fransisco. This is a typical landing. The pilot
disconnected the autopilot at a few hundred feet but this aircraft and
runway 28L could have enabled him to perform a full autoland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ShBOtPiuNM

Relevance? (we're (you were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).


As you can clearly witness the majority of the input required by the
pilot to maintain flight, approach and landing is via the MCP on the
glareshield

Relevance? (we're (you were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

--
Duncan

Relevance? (we're (you *were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

--
Duncan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This all stems from earlier posts here on whether a NOVICE pilot
during an emergency could control an aircraft and successfully land
it.
The aircraft on this video did have an assigned STAR but has been
vectored to intercept the ILS localiser. The P.I.C. is NOT flying the
747, he is simply adjusting the MCP knobs and switches on the
glareshield

During an emergency a novice could do the exact same under the
guidance of ATC. With autoland enabled and a certified runway he
wouldnt have to touch the yoke or throttle at all. Other pilots here
believe an airliner MUST be handflown on finals just because their
automation systems do not offer the same capablilities of the
747-400. Yes some carriers request pilots to disengage the autopilot
and autothottle system on final and hand fly the remaining 500 feet
descent but it doesn't have to be done

On Mar 9, 4:53*pm, Ibby wrote:
Relevance? (we're (you *were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

--
Duncan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This all stems from earlier posts here on whether a NOVICE pilot
during an emergency could control an aircraft and successfully land
it.
The aircraft on this video did have an assigned STAR but has been
vectored to intercept the ILS localiser. *The P.I.C. is NOT flying the
747, he is simply adjusting the MCP knobs and switches on the
glareshield

During an emergency a novice could do the exact same under the
guidance of ATC. *With autoland enabled and a certified runway he
wouldnt have to touch the yoke or throttle at all. Other pilots here
believe an airliner MUST be handflown on finals just because their
automation systems do not offer the same capablilities of the
747-400. *Yes some carriers request pilots to disengage the autopilot
and autothottle system on final and hand fly the remaining 500 feet
descent but it doesn't have to be done

I watched the real time adjustments during the approach, and have
serious doubts that someone alone in the cockpit with over the radio
instuctions could in fact do what the crew did, even if that person
had sim experience. In the world of psychology studies regarding open-
loop instruction systems have shown them to be very error prone. It
would take someone very good at giving blinded verbal instructions to
pull it off.

Read what happened in something I just posted about an F18 pilot being
given instructions on bringing his bird home in San Diego -- hardly
inexperienced, and yet the result was a deadly crash. The claim being
made here is someone with zero real experience would fare better. I'd
not bet on that.

The good news is, there are no bets to be made. It's an experiment not
being done.

a writes:

I watched the real time adjustments during the approach, and have
serious doubts that someone alone in the cockpit with over the radio
instuctions could in fact do what the crew did, even if that person
had sim experience.

Any intelligent person could do it with or without sim experience. And
remember, these aircraft can be flown by one person in a pinch.

In the world of psychology studies regarding open-
loop instruction systems have shown them to be very error prone. It
would take someone very good at giving blinded verbal instructions to
pull it off.

With someone good at following them, and someone good at giving them, things
would work out.

Read what happened in something I just posted about an F18 pilot being
given instructions on bringing his bird home in San Diego -- hardly
inexperienced, and yet the result was a deadly crash.

He was in training.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
a writes:

You delusion continues.

On Mar 9, 5:33*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
a writes:
I watched the real time adjustments during the approach, and have
serious doubts that someone alone in the cockpit with over the radio
instuctions could in fact do what the crew did, even if that person
had sim experience.

Any intelligent person could do it with or without sim experience. *And
remember, these aircraft can be flown by one person in a pinch.

In the world of psychology studies regarding open-
loop instruction systems have shown them to be very error prone. It
would take someone very good at giving blinded verbal instructions to
pull it off.

With someone good at following them, and someone good at giving them, things
would work out.

Read what happened in something I just posted about an F18 pilot being
given instructions on bringing his bird home in San Diego -- hardly
inexperienced, and yet the result was a deadly crash.

He was in training.

He was geting 'expert' instructions over the radio, and still people
died. Is the connection too obscure for you?

In article df56c4f0-02b3-45b8-9331-
, says...

Relevance? (we're (you *were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

--
Duncan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This all stems from earlier posts here on whether a NOVICE pilot
during an emergency could control an aircraft and successfully land
it.

It does not! It stems from YOUR post that "MOST landing are autolands".

They are not.

--
Duncan

"Ibby" wrote in message
...


During an emergency a novice could do the exact same under the
guidance of ATC. With autoland enabled and a certified runway he
wouldnt have to touch the yoke or throttle at all. Other pilots here
believe an airliner MUST be handflown on finals just because their
automation systems do not offer the same capablilities of the
747-400. Yes some carriers request pilots to disengage the autopilot
and autothottle system on final and hand fly the remaining 500 feet
descent but it doesn't have to be done

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Carry on my wayward son, you powers of imagination are quickly surpassing
Mx.