Radio altimeter fault triggered Turkish Airlines crash

Robert Moore wrote:
wrote
The word "autoland" refers to a system in aircraft.
It is routine to turn on autoland during approach and turn it off just
before touchdown.

That's not how we did it in the B-727s that I flew at PanAm.
Autoland was a procedure during which the autopilot flew the
aircraft to touchdown.

The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

And yes, "autoland" can refer to a procedure or a system.

The whole point is, contrary to MX's claim, not EVERY approach that
starts as "autoland" (however you want to define it) ends with the
A/C on the ground for EVERY airplane.


--
Jim Pennino

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wrote
The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

Not according to Wikipedia.....

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In aviation, autoland describes a system that fully automates the landing
phase of an aircraft's flight, with the human crew merely supervising the
process.

With 25 years of airline experience flying Boeing jetliners, I would
suggest that I know more about "autoland" operations and equipment than
either you or MX.

More from Wikipedia.....

Autoland requires the use of a radio altimeter to determine the aircraft's
height above the ground very precisely so as to initiate the landing flare
at the correct height (usually about 50 feet).
Autoland is highly accurate, and it lands the plane at the same spot on the
runway every time with very high accuracy. This is in contrast to manual
landings, where touch down points are relatively widely distributed within
the Touch Down Zone on the runway.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

Robert Moore wrote:
wrote
The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

Not according to Wikipedia.....

Well, according to NASA, it does:

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/...n_profile.html

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/n...andingaids.htm

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/r.../1992/1-92.htm


--
Jim Pennino

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On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:49:41 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

wrote
The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

Not according to Wikipedia.....

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In aviation, autoland describes a system that fully automates the landing
phase of an aircraft's flight, with the human crew merely supervising the
process.

With 25 years of airline experience flying Boeing jetliners, I would
suggest that I know more about "autoland" operations and equipment than
either you or MX.

More from Wikipedia.....

Autoland requires the use of a radio altimeter to determine the aircraft's
height above the ground very precisely so as to initiate the landing flare
at the correct height (usually about 50 feet).
Autoland is highly accurate, and it lands the plane at the same spot on the
runway every time with very high accuracy. This is in contrast to manual
landings, where touch down points are relatively widely distributed within
the Touch Down Zone on the runway.

Bob Moore
PanAm (retired)

the problem here seems to be the inappropriate substitution of
"coupled approach" with "autoland" by certain people.

Just go look it up! wrote
the problem here seems to be the inappropriate substitution of
"coupled approach" with "autoland" by certain people.

Yep!

Bob

writes:

The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

There's no such thing as an "autoland approach." You can automate the
approach, but if the automation doesn't take you to touchdown, it's not an
autoland.

The whole point is, contrary to MX's claim, not EVERY approach that
starts as "autoland" (however you want to define it) ends with the
A/C on the ground for EVERY airplane.

The point is that you're reaching, like so many others here. It's so
important to you to contradict me that you become careless.

This can be dangerous for pilots, as they may feel so determined to prove that
they are right that they'll kill themselves in the process. And it applies in
other domains, such as driving, too.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

There's no such thing as an "autoland approach." You can automate the
approach, but if the automation doesn't take you to touchdown, it's not an
autoland.

Funny, the FAA seems to think otherwise:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...pubs/PCG/A.HTM

From the ink:

"AUTOLAND APPROACH- An autoland approach is a precision instrument
approach to touchdown and, -IN SOME CASES-, through the landing rollout."

Emphasis mine.

Wrong again.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

There's no such thing as an "autoland approach." You can automate the
approach, but if the automation doesn't take you to touchdown, it's not an
autoland.

Funny, the FAA seems to think otherwise:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...pubs/PCG/A.HTM

From the ink:

"AUTOLAND APPROACH- An autoland approach is a precision instrument
approach to touchdown and, -IN SOME CASES-, through the landing rollout."

Emphasis mine.

Wrong again.

The FAA agrees with me.

I didn't say anything about autoland including rollout. But it always
includes touchdown, just like the FAA says, otherwise it's just an approach.
And, inevitably, any autoland that includes rollout also includes touchdown,
since touchdown comes first. An autoland that does not include rollout still
includes touchdown.

What is your point, exactly?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
writes:

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

There's no such thing as an "autoland approach." You can automate the
approach, but if the automation doesn't take you to touchdown, it's not
an
autoland.

Funny, the FAA seems to think otherwise:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...pubs/PCG/A.HTM

From the ink:

"AUTOLAND APPROACH- An autoland approach is a precision instrument
approach to touchdown and, -IN SOME CASES-, through the landing
rollout."

Emphasis mine.

Wrong again.

The FAA agrees with me.

I didn't say anything about autoland including rollout. But it always
includes touchdown, just like the FAA says, otherwise it's just an
approach.
And, inevitably, any autoland that includes rollout also includes
touchdown,
since touchdown comes first. An autoland that does not include rollout
still
includes touchdown.

What is your point, exactly?

The fact you are too stupid to realize just how infrequently it is actually
used, for openers.

Then the fact that you are just too stupid.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

The shuttle does an autoland approach and touches down manually.

There's no such thing as an "autoland approach." You can automate the
approach, but if the automation doesn't take you to touchdown, it's not an
autoland.

Funny, the FAA seems to think otherwise:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...pubs/PCG/A.HTM

From the ink:

"AUTOLAND APPROACH- An autoland approach is a precision instrument
approach to touchdown and, -IN SOME CASES-, through the landing rollout."

Emphasis mine.

Wrong again.

The FAA agrees with me.

I didn't say anything about autoland including rollout. But it always
includes touchdown, just like the FAA says, otherwise it's just an approach.
And, inevitably, any autoland that includes rollout also includes touchdown,
since touchdown comes first. An autoland that does not include rollout still
includes touchdown.

What is your point, exactly?

That you are an idiot?

From your above:

"There's no such thing as an "autoland approach.""

Funny that the FAA defines something you say doesn't exist.


--
Jim Pennino

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