Sad day for Mxsmanic

Relevance? (we're (you *were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

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Duncan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This all stems from earlier posts here on whether a NOVICE pilot
during an emergency could control an aircraft and successfully land
it.
The aircraft on this video did have an assigned STAR but has been
vectored to intercept the ILS localiser. The P.I.C. is NOT flying the
747, he is simply adjusting the MCP knobs and switches on the
glareshield

During an emergency a novice could do the exact same under the
guidance of ATC. With autoland enabled and a certified runway he
wouldnt have to touch the yoke or throttle at all. Other pilots here
believe an airliner MUST be handflown on finals just because their
automation systems do not offer the same capablilities of the
747-400. Yes some carriers request pilots to disengage the autopilot
and autothottle system on final and hand fly the remaining 500 feet
descent but it doesn't have to be done

On Mar 9, 4:53*pm, Ibby wrote:
Relevance? (we're (you *were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

--
Duncan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This all stems from earlier posts here on whether a NOVICE pilot
during an emergency could control an aircraft and successfully land
it.
The aircraft on this video did have an assigned STAR but has been
vectored to intercept the ILS localiser. *The P.I.C. is NOT flying the
747, he is simply adjusting the MCP knobs and switches on the
glareshield

During an emergency a novice could do the exact same under the
guidance of ATC. *With autoland enabled and a certified runway he
wouldnt have to touch the yoke or throttle at all. Other pilots here
believe an airliner MUST be handflown on finals just because their
automation systems do not offer the same capablilities of the
747-400. *Yes some carriers request pilots to disengage the autopilot
and autothottle system on final and hand fly the remaining 500 feet
descent but it doesn't have to be done

I watched the real time adjustments during the approach, and have
serious doubts that someone alone in the cockpit with over the radio
instuctions could in fact do what the crew did, even if that person
had sim experience. In the world of psychology studies regarding open-
loop instruction systems have shown them to be very error prone. It
would take someone very good at giving blinded verbal instructions to
pull it off.

Read what happened in something I just posted about an F18 pilot being
given instructions on bringing his bird home in San Diego -- hardly
inexperienced, and yet the result was a deadly crash. The claim being
made here is someone with zero real experience would fare better. I'd
not bet on that.

The good news is, there are no bets to be made. It's an experiment not
being done.

a writes:

I watched the real time adjustments during the approach, and have
serious doubts that someone alone in the cockpit with over the radio
instuctions could in fact do what the crew did, even if that person
had sim experience.

Any intelligent person could do it with or without sim experience. And
remember, these aircraft can be flown by one person in a pinch.

In the world of psychology studies regarding open-
loop instruction systems have shown them to be very error prone. It
would take someone very good at giving blinded verbal instructions to
pull it off.

With someone good at following them, and someone good at giving them, things
would work out.

Read what happened in something I just posted about an F18 pilot being
given instructions on bringing his bird home in San Diego -- hardly
inexperienced, and yet the result was a deadly crash.

He was in training.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
a writes:

You delusion continues.

On Mar 9, 5:33*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
a writes:
I watched the real time adjustments during the approach, and have
serious doubts that someone alone in the cockpit with over the radio
instuctions could in fact do what the crew did, even if that person
had sim experience.

Any intelligent person could do it with or without sim experience. *And
remember, these aircraft can be flown by one person in a pinch.

In the world of psychology studies regarding open-
loop instruction systems have shown them to be very error prone. It
would take someone very good at giving blinded verbal instructions to
pull it off.

With someone good at following them, and someone good at giving them, things
would work out.

Read what happened in something I just posted about an F18 pilot being
given instructions on bringing his bird home in San Diego -- hardly
inexperienced, and yet the result was a deadly crash.

He was in training.

He was geting 'expert' instructions over the radio, and still people
died. Is the connection too obscure for you?

a writes:

He was geting 'expert' instructions over the radio, and still people
died. Is the connection too obscure for you?

No, he was not getting expert instructions. He already knew how to fly the
plane, and nobody was telling him how to do so over the radio. The
instructions concerned other matters, such as which airport would be the best
choice for landing.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
a writes:

He was geting 'expert' instructions over the radio, and still people
died. Is the connection too obscure for you?

No, he was not getting expert instructions. He already knew how to fly
the
plane, and nobody was telling him how to do so over the radio. The
instructions concerned other matters, such as which airport would be the
best
choice for landing.

How would you know, you have never flown anything but a desk.

On Mar 10, 8:25*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
a writes:
He was geting 'expert' instructions over the radio, and still people
died. Is the connection too obscure for you?

No, he was not getting expert instructions. *He already knew how to fly the
plane, and nobody was telling him how to do so over the radio. *The
instructions concerned other matters, such as which airport would be the best
choice for landing.

Your view of expert instructions is very limited. Why not read the
release completely, then tell me which of those who were giving him
advice were not expert?

The point I am making, and this crash demonstrates it, is even when
someone knows enough and has been trained in a given airplane, he or
she can get into trouble, and expert advice from the ground was unable
to resolve the matter. Your claim is that someone with MSFS experience
without actual cockpit time could do better, with the assumption that
a qualified expert -- more expert than the F18 instructors that were
used in this case in any event -- could be found.

Oh well, you've waltzed around this maypole often enough, and you are
clearly getting the attention on line that you seem to need.
Congratulations.

a writes:

Your view of expert instructions is very limited. Why not read the
release completely, then tell me which of those who were giving him
advice were not expert?

I have. I don't know if they were experts or not, but they were not giving
expert instruction, certainly not expert instruction in piloting.

The point I am making, and this crash demonstrates it, is even when
someone knows enough and has been trained in a given airplane, he or
she can get into trouble, and expert advice from the ground was unable
to resolve the matter. Your claim is that someone with MSFS experience
without actual cockpit time could do better, with the assumption that
a qualified expert -- more expert than the F18 instructors that were
used in this case in any event -- could be found.

In the scenario I've discussed, there's nothing wrong with the aircraft.
Abnormal procedures can stump even the best pilots, but in a normally
functioning airliner, anyone can land it with the automation available. If the
only problem is incapacitation of the pilots, the outlook for a safe landing
is quite good.

In article df56c4f0-02b3-45b8-9331-
, says...

Relevance? (we're (you *were) talking autolands, not approaches or even
cruise flight).

--
Duncan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This all stems from earlier posts here on whether a NOVICE pilot
during an emergency could control an aircraft and successfully land
it.

It does not! It stems from YOUR post that "MOST landing are autolands".

They are not.

--
Duncan