See and Avoid - Birds

Sorry--a little late am I to this discussion, so I suppose it's
been sorted out by now to everyone's satisfaction. But I'll add
this anyway:

Flt 1549 unique? Yes.

But as far as "miraculous" goes, I see no evidence of Divine
intervention. I would agree that a better prepared Captain, and a
finer spokesman, than Sullenberger would be rare indeed.

Bird strikes I've had were mostly a matter of recognition either in
real time or after the fact, and not something that could be
avoided. The target is too small and the speeds too great. And with
a ship full of people we don't start jinking on suspicion.

Bird strikes have been deadly in small, fast, very maneuverable
aircraft as well, so it's also not just a question of maneuverability.

I enjoy flying _with_ the birds in a sailplane, where the speeds
can be nearly matched, and I have a close up view of the real
masters of the sky at work. When I am at work, bird strikes are as
much a roll of the dice as almost anything else that can happen.

And the original poster's Q., "Why didn't he take immediate evasive
action?" is priceless indeed. Anytime I can snap in 4 or 5 g's,
I'll happily do it. Flying an airliner ain't one of those times.


Jack

Jack wrote:
Sorry--a little late am I to this discussion, so I suppose it's been
sorted out by now to everyone's satisfaction. But I'll add this anyway:

Flt 1549 unique? Yes.

But as far as "miraculous" goes, I see no evidence of Divine
intervention. I would agree that a better prepared Captain, and a finer
spokesman, than Sullenberger would be rare indeed.

Bird strikes I've had were mostly a matter of recognition either in
real time or after the fact, and not something that could be
avoided. The target is too small and the speeds too great. And with a
ship full of people we don't start jinking on suspicion.

Bird strikes have been deadly in small, fast, very maneuverable
aircraft as well, so it's also not just a question of maneuverability.

I enjoy flying _with_ the birds in a sailplane, where the speeds
can be nearly matched, and I have a close up view of the real
masters of the sky at work. When I am at work, bird strikes are as
much a roll of the dice as almost anything else that can happen.

And the original poster's Q., "Why didn't he take immediate evasive
action?" is priceless indeed. Anytime I can snap in 4 or 5 g's, I'll
happily do it. Flying an airliner ain't one of those times.


Jack

I have a question...IF this youtube animation of the flightpath is
correct, it shows a couple of turns that appear to have been made away
from the airport of departure. I also noticed there is a runway at 90
degrees to the departure runway at the departure end. Here's a "what
if"...couldn't he have made a 270 degree left turn (from the initial
departure heading) and landed on that cross runway? In the video, it
looks like he might have been able do it. I have no idea what the wind
direction/velocity was that day, so my theory might have made for a
downwind landing, but it would have been on dry land...regardless, he
DID do a good job of putting the ship down and everyone walked away, and
as they say, "Any landing you walk away from is a good one. A great one
is when you can still use the airplane!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZPvVwvX_Nc

Scott

*In the video, it looks like he might have been able do it. *

The key word in your post was 'might'. He also 'migh't have made it
to Teterboro, which too was rejected. The Hudson was the only sure
bet. At least if that plan went south it was only 155 people instead
of an entire neigborhood or urban block's worth as well...

-Paul

On Mar 11, 11:33*am, sisu1a wrote:
*In the video, it looks like he might have been able do it. *

The key word in your post was 'might'. * He also 'migh't have made it
to Teterboro, which too was rejected. * *The Hudson was the only sure
bet. At least if that plan went south it was only 155 people instead
of an entire *neigborhood or urban block's worth as well...

-Paul

AFAIK, there is no procedure for a double engine failure - Sully was
writing the book as he went. The man deserves enormous credit for
pulling it off.

I did hear that one simulation showed that IF he had turned for
Teterboro exactly at the time of the bird strike, he MIGHT have made
it with a very thin margin. For it to work, the option would have had
to have been pre-planned. All things considered, the Hudson was the
best option.

For glider pilots, the take home lesson is that we all need well
considered options in mind for every takeoff. The probability of a
PTT is infinitely greater than a double engine failure.

On Mar 11, 11:33*am, bildan wrote:
AFAIK, there is no procedure for a double engine failure - Sully was
writing the book as he went. *


I don't know the A320 but I think every transport aircraft I have
worked on has an all engine out procedure. I just checked MD-11,
MD-10, A300, A310 for which I have documentation at my desk, and each
has an "all engine flameout" procedure.

Andy

On Mar 11, 1:32*pm, Andy wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:33*am, bildan wrote:

AFAIK, there is no procedure for a double engine failure - Sully was
writing the book as he went. *

I don't know the A320 but I think every transport aircraft I have
worked on has an all engine out procedure. *I just checked MD-11,
MD-10, A300, A310 for which I have documentation at my desk, and each
has an "all engine flameout" procedure.

Andy

Somewhere I read that the reason that they didn't activate the
ditching button was that, that action was on page 3 of the all engine
out checklist. They never made it past page 1 of the check list.

Brian

sisu1a wrote:
In the video, it looks like he might have been able do it.

The key word in your post was 'might'. He also 'migh't have made it
to Teterboro, which too was rejected. The Hudson was the only sure
bet. At least if that plan went south it was only 155 people instead
of an entire neigborhood or urban block's worth as well...

-Paul
Agreed. That's why I put might in there It's just that I "practice"
this very thing on my Microsoft Flight Sim with a model of my Corben
Junior Ace (and the only thing that beats it to the ground after an
engine failure is an anvul) and have gotten somewhat proficient at it
now. Granted, it's only a sim and nobody dies if I screw up

Is there any statistics showing what the success rate of water landings is?

Scott