Light gun work with ATC COMS - Video

On 07/16/09 14:12, A Lieberman wrote:
On Jul 16, 3:59 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

Why don't you think 91.185 applies once you break out of the clouds?
Did you cancel your IFR clearance at that point? If not, aren't you
still flying by IFR?

Actually it's a visual, I didn't mean VFR.

No. If you break out at DA and continue to land, you're not executing
a visual approach. See the Pilot/Controller glossary for details.


My point being landing is not an instrument procedure and has it's own
set of rules.

When flying IFR and landing through the use of an IAP, the landing is
certainly part of the procedure.


I don't think light guns apply to IFR procedures, but we all have to
land, and that landing clearance rules are distinctly different then
the approach clearance rules given in 91.185. Otherwise, I would
imagine the 91.185 would have light gun references in there?

I'm a little confused as to what you're trying to get here. If you're
on an IFR flight and lose radio and get to your destination, fly
the approach, break out at DA, etc., if you are able to land and
don't because you don't see a light gun signal... well - I won't
finish that sentence :-)


However, I think this whole thread started with a Visual approach and
landing to a towered field with no radio. I think the question was
asked at that time: What has this to do with IFR flight? This is an
IFR group, right?



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On Jul 16, 4:38*pm, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 07/16/09 14:12, A Lieberman wrote:

On Jul 16, 3:59 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

Why don't you think 91.185 applies once you break out of the clouds?
Did you cancel your IFR clearance at that point? If not, aren't you
still flying by IFR?

Actually it's a visual, I didn't mean VFR.

No. If you break out at DA and continue to land, you're not executing
a visual approach. See the Pilot/Controller glossary for details.



My point being landing is not an instrument procedure and has it's own
set of rules.

When flying IFR and landing through the use of an IAP, the landing is
certainly part of the procedure.

Bear with me Mark. If what you say is true, then why do you get a
clearance to land? Why are you NOTcleared to land on the approach
when you receive your clearance to execute the approach.

I'm a little confused as to what you're trying to get here. If you're
on an IFR flight and lose radio and get to your destination, fly
the approach, break out at DA, etc., if you are able to land and
don't because you don't see a light gun signal... well - I won't
finish that sentence :-)

In the real world, you land and deal with the paper work afterwards or
that's how I would deal with it:-) But it would appear to me the
landing clearance has absolutely nothing to do with the instrument
approach clearance. See above why.

However, I think this whole thread started with a Visual approach and
landing to a towered field with no radio. I think the question was
asked at that time: What has this to do with IFR flight? This is an
IFR group, right?

Well, the way I see it, to land you have to be cleared :-) The light
signal does that. The instrument approach is only part of the process

BeechSundowner wrote:

On Jul 16, 4:38 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

On 07/16/09 14:12, A Lieberman wrote:


On Jul 16, 3:59 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

Why don't you think 91.185 applies once you break out of the clouds?
Did you cancel your IFR clearance at that point? If not, aren't you
still flying by IFR?

Actually it's a visual, I didn't mean VFR.

No. If you break out at DA and continue to land, you're not executing
a visual approach. See the Pilot/Controller glossary for details.




My point being landing is not an instrument procedure and has it's own
set of rules.

When flying IFR and landing through the use of an IAP, the landing is
certainly part of the procedure.


Bear with me Mark. If what you say is true, then why do you get a
clearance to land? Why are you NOTcleared to land on the approach
when you receive your clearance to execute the approach.


I'm a little confused as to what you're trying to get here. If you're
on an IFR flight and lose radio and get to your destination, fly
the approach, break out at DA, etc., if you are able to land and
don't because you don't see a light gun signal... well - I won't
finish that sentence :-)


In the real world, you land and deal with the paper work afterwards or
that's how I would deal with it:-) But it would appear to me the
landing clearance has absolutely nothing to do with the instrument
approach clearance. See above why.


However, I think this whole thread started with a Visual approach and
landing to a towered field with no radio. I think the question was
asked at that time: What has this to do with IFR flight? This is an
IFR group, right?


Well, the way I see it, to land you have to be cleared :-) The light
signal does that. The instrument approach is only part of the process

Your way of seeing it doesn't make it a reality.

On 07/16/09 15:38, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:38 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 07/16/09 14:12, A Lieberman wrote:

On Jul 16, 3:59 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

Why don't you think 91.185 applies once you break out of the clouds?
Did you cancel your IFR clearance at that point? If not, aren't you
still flying by IFR?

Actually it's a visual, I didn't mean VFR.

No. If you break out at DA and continue to land, you're not executing
a visual approach. See the Pilot/Controller glossary for details.



My point being landing is not an instrument procedure and has it's own
set of rules.

When flying IFR and landing through the use of an IAP, the landing is
certainly part of the procedure.

Bear with me Mark. If what you say is true, then why do you get a
clearance to land? Why are you NOTcleared to land on the approach
when you receive your clearance to execute the approach.

Again, if you are flying an IAP under IFR and NORDO, when you get
to the DA on the approach - and all other IAP landing criteria are
met (visibility, etc.), then you land. You had better not be looking
for a light gun signal at this point.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA