A fair opportunity to compete?

On Jul 17, 6:24*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Ok, I'm the CD. Two minutes before I open the gate, I call the last
launcher and ask how's he doing. He replies he's on a dead glide back
to the airport. I then call my sports advisor. He replies that he's at
12000 feet along with half the class, waiting for the gate to open.
What do I do?

I realize the late launchers are struggling and hold the gate opening
for 5 minutes.

Now, its 20 minutes after the last launcher
rolled........................what do I do? *Do I scrub the day
because the last 3 launchers aren't getting a fair shot? NO, I realize
that this sport will never be 100% fair and equal. There is a luck-of-
the-draw issue with launch position and that is just part of the game.
I open the gate and the race is on!

Next day when I get 2 protests, I deny them!

JJ Sinclair, who has CD'd 3 national competitions without a single
protest.


Why wait the extra 5 minutes in that case? If it's clear the day has
shut down for any late launchers, why not declare them SOL right away
so you don't risk the starts for the rest of the class by waiting?

9B

Andy wrote:

Why wait the extra 5 minutes in that case?

Not all is known at gate opening time, just that half the fleet is OK
and a few are struggling.

Lets take the same scenario, but this time we'll make it the last day
and we need one more day to make it a contest. Any question as to
opening the gate now? Does anybody think a sane CD would scrub the
day?
JJ

On Jul 17, 1:19*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Andy wrote:
Why wait the extra 5 minutes in that case?

Not all is known at gate opening time, just that half the fleet is OK
and a few are struggling.

Lets take the same scenario, but this time we'll make it the last day
and we need one more day to make it a contest. Any question as to
opening the gate now? Does anybody think a sane CD would scrub the
day?
JJ

But waiting 5 minutes could screw it up for everyone else. If you
believe in the luck of the draw than there is no point in waiting
since what is known and not known at gate opening time is all part of
the luck factor that you you are advocating we not try to correct for.

Last day versus first day shouldn't matter if we are trying to do the
fair thing - though I appreciate that the pressure to cut corners to
get a contest in goes up as the number of remaining days goes down.
Some CDs might open the gate with 60 percent of the fleet back on the
ground. You might well get a contest in, but would it be worth it?

9B

Andy wrote?

But waiting 5 minutes could screw it up for everyone else.

The 5 minutes comes right from the master, Charlie Spratt. Its an
acknowledgment that some are in trouble, but we're here to race and
race we will. Probably done more as an answer (in advance) to any
potential Parowan type protests that might be lurking out there.

Last day versus first day shouldn't matter if we are trying to do the
fair thing - though I appreciate that the pressure to cut corners to
get a contest in goes up as the number of remaining days goes down.
Some CDs might open the gate with 60 percent of the fleet back on the
ground. You might well get a contest in, but would it be worth it?

See above under, "We're here to race and race we will". If you want to
hold a contest that is completely fair, get the Parowan management
group together and the winner will be decided by the one who wins the
most protests (or prtests to the original protests)!

This has been a good thread and I believe much has been learned,
however I must take my exit now. I'm off to fly a contest where we
don't protest our launch positions!
Love & kisses to all,
JJ

Fly like the wind JJ! Good luck.

On Jul 18, 6:19*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Andy wrote?

The 5 minutes comes right from the master, Charlie Spratt. Its an
acknowledgment that some are in trouble, but we're here to race and
race we will. Probably done more as an answer (in advance) to any
potential Parowan type protests that might be lurking out there.


Got it. The 5 minutes is just lip service - not my preferred approach,
by probably effective most of the time.

I do think in this case the CD would have been justified in not
opening the Sports Class gate at all - as disappointing as that may
have been for several dozen pilots. Opening the gate makes an implicit
statement that the CD believes everyone in the class has been given a
fair opportunity to get a start. This should probably be made more
explicit - either in the rules or in the guidance given to CDs. We
should also consider making it more explicit that the CD should take
whatever measures s/he thinks are necessary to ensure that
opportunity, including raising the release altitude and/or changing
the drop zone (changing the drop zone in particular is tricky, because
changing ANYTHING can lead to griping and protests).

9B

Well said Andy. Your comments underscore the importance of the task
advisors (perhaps we should call them "task and gate advisors"). The
rules indicate how these individuals should be well respected, fair,
and experience. Using their input more is less likely to generate
protests. I'll throw in my earlier comment here that in a big contest,
we probably need more task advisors to get an accurate "sample."

4Z
(on hiatus in 2009)

On Jul 19, 8:01*am, Chad wrote:
Well said Andy. Your comments underscore the importance of the task
advisors (perhaps we should call them "task and gate advisors"). The
rules indicate how these individuals should be well respected, fair,
and experience. Using their input more is less likely to generate
protests. I'll throw in my earlier comment here that in a big contest,
we probably need more task advisors to get an accurate "sample."

4Z
(on hiatus in 2009)

The tension in raising release altitudes is that it delays the launch,
but when conditions are deteriorating the CD may be forced with a
choice between getting the current class launched AND started versus
getting the next class launched at all. Not an enviable situation, but
sometimes you gotta make the tough call. I think once the majority of
a class is in the air, making sure they can all get a chance at a
start takes priority over commencing the launch for the next class.

See you at the 2010 Sports Nationals Chad?

9B