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On Sep 10, 6:07*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
The past few weekends I've been watching some our our club students being instructed on and practicing slips to a landing (i.e."no spoiler landings") in preparation for their Private check rides. *Gliders used were our 2-33 and Blanik. *I've also seen no-spoiler landings being demonstrated in our G-103 *- some quite nicely judged, I might add! But I've been wondering about the utility and safety of this practice, and whether it's taught in other countries - and if so, how it's taught. I realize that a no-spoiler approach is always an eventuality, and our club even had one several years ago in a G-102 that left the glider in the cornfield off the far end of the field, but it seems to me that the skill learned in a slipped approach in a 2-33 may not really transfer to a Discus 2 or other slippery glass ship, and that conversely, realistic training - slipping all the way to touchdown, no spoilers allowed - in a glass 2-seater (unless one has the luxury of a really big field) could be somewhat hazardous. It kind of reminds me of the old multi-engine requirement to demonstrate Vmc at low altitudes, which was finally changed when the authorities realized that they were killing more pilots in training than in actual engine failures! On the other hand, I've tried them in glass, including my Ls6 (which does not recommend slips to a landing), and concluded that they are a serious emergency that needs to be carefully thought out ahead of time, and can only be safely practiced by breaking down into two segments: *First, no spoilers, slip to aim for the middle of the field, then recover and land normally with spoilers as required; and second, position the glider so as to be approaching the threshold at a safe speed and altitude, then close spoilers, establish a slip, and continue with the no-spoiler landing. Comments? *I'm especially interested in hearing how this is handled in other countries. Kirk 66 Realistic requirement for a number of reasons. 1) It is useful for additional sink rate in many ships- makes my '28 come down much faster. 2) Spoilers do freeze shut - we see it in the Winter in the East. 3) Equipment does fail. 4) It is a useful exercise in aircraft control 5) Folks we are training may fly ships that don't have the really good dive brakes of the modern ships. 6) It's kinda fun. No spoiler- no brake spot landings are a challange. FWIW UH |
#2
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I think it's a useful maneuver in the same way that boxing the wake is
-- it tells the examiner you're really in charge of the aircraft and pattern planning. We don't really do it for broken spoilers, that's a once in a gazillion event. That's why the new PTS does not require an actual landing with spoilers, only demonstration of glide path control using spoilers alone. The PTS should also require slips WITH spoilers not slips INSTEAD of spoilers. That's the maneuver you will use, when too high, to get in to a field, etc. Many pilots have no idea how steeply you can in fact come down. We'll just have to train that on our own. I've been having fun with students -- the challenge is, set up a landing so that you will use full slip and full spoiler on final. If you have to back off, you buy the beer (after flying) John Cochrane |
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The Practical Test Standard was clarified regarding "Slips to Landing"
that an actual slip to landing was not required. I have not instructed in a few years and maybe this had been clarified in the PTS but in the "Designee Update" of Jan.2000 this was clarified after an instructor in MN brought up the question to the FAA. I quote it below: AFS-600 Regulatory Support Division, Designee Update Vol.12, No.1 January 2000 “GLIDER SLIPS” For you folks who operate in the glider community, the April 1999 Private and Commercial Pilot-Glider Practical Test Standards include a landing TASK entitled “Slips to Landing.” In the objective, the applicant is required to “establish a slip without the use of drag devices” and then complete a landing. We have had questions on whether the applicant should complete the landing, with or without the use of drag devices. There was never any intent to require an applicant to complete the landing without the use of drag devices. The applicant is only required to demonstrate a slip (forward or side) without using drag devices, to position the glider for a safe landing. Element 6 of the TASK states; “make smooth, proper, and positive control applications during recovery from the slip.” Once this has been accomplished, the maneuver being evaluated is over. The applicant then lands the glider within the designated landing area, using drag devices as appropriate. Most important for examiner standardization, the examiner should not add or decrease elements to this task, or any other task, by asking the applicant to do more or less than is required. On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:16:07 -0700 (PDT), John Cochrane wrote: I think it's a useful maneuver in the same way that boxing the wake is -- it tells the examiner you're really in charge of the aircraft and pattern planning. We don't really do it for broken spoilers, that's a once in a gazillion event. That's why the new PTS does not require an actual landing with spoilers, only demonstration of glide path control using spoilers alone. The PTS should also require slips WITH spoilers not slips INSTEAD of spoilers. That's the maneuver you will use, when too high, to get in to a field, etc. Many pilots have no idea how steeply you can in fact come down. We'll just have to train that on our own. I've been having fun with students -- the challenge is, set up a landing so that you will use full slip and full spoiler on final. If you have to back off, you buy the beer (after flying) John Cochrane |
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