New Transponder Comparison Table

In message , Mark Dickson
writes
If you are thinking of buying a transponder, Paul, you should buy a mode S
transponder. You are correct that a lot of the ATC units you may contact
will not be Mode S equipped, but they will still recieve the mode A and
mode C (4 digit assigned code and altitude). Buying a non-mode S
transponder would be a waste of money, as you will need it to enter
certain areas and types of airspace in the UK. A transponder mandatory
zone means a mode S transponder mandatory zone.

Suspect (but am not sure) that all new transponder installations in the
UK must be mode S.



At 19:15 12 September 2009, Andy Melville wrote:
As a very uneducated pilot,following Paul Remdes suggestions, I was
considering buying a Transponder mode S but then various people said
local
airports didnt have mode S yet so it woulld be a waste of time for some
time to come..is this true?
If I buy mode S can it be accessed/ used by the current systems?
Some easy to understand stuff would be most welcome!
Regards from UK


--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

“ . . . in the UK. A transponder mandatory zone means a mode S
transponder mandatory zone. “

Wrong, at least for the new Stansted TMZ’s:

“ . . . access is permitted to any aircraft which is operating a fully
functioning pressure altitude reporting transponder in accordance with
the CAA’s TMZ Policy Statement or to those aircraft which the aircraft
commander has obtained permission from the air traffic control unit at
Stansted Airport, Farnborough Radar, or Essex Radar, as may be
appropriate, to enter the restricted airspace.”

So it needs Mode C, not necessarily Mode S, thought the latter also
incorporates mode C.

However, for new installations, I believe that Surfer is right – new
installations have to mode S.

If not so, no doubt somebody else will be along soon, To clarify.

Chris N.

By the way, any UK glider operator proposing to fit a transponder has
to pay attention to EASA requirements, in many cases. As I have
recently written elsewhe

Most UK gliders are now regulated under EASA, and all modifications
for those must have EASA approval. I am told that instrument panel, or
wiring, or extra battery provision, are all modifications requiring
approved schemes. I understand that BGA is negotiating with CAA to try
to simplify and make practical obtaining such approval, more like how
we used to be able to make technical and safety improvements, with BGA
Technical Committee approval, before EASA and CAA regulated gliders;
but I won’t believe it is possible, seeing how Europe works these
days, until it is done. As far as I know, few if any EASA
modifications to fit transponders, including details of wiring and
battery changes, have been officially approved. A transponder on a
long glider flight is likely to need at least one extra 7 amp hour
battery, maybe more. I have specifically been told that to fit to my
Lak 17A a Trig 2-unit transponder (the only one I am sure will fit),
and an additional battery, needs all that installation to be approved.
The Lak factory has EASA approval to a modification which specifies
antenna, 3 specific models of transponder which do not include the
Trig, and as far as I can see does not provide for any additional
battery nor the wiring changes to feed the remote amplifier unit and a
lead from there to the small control unit in the instrument panel.
EASA thus prevents me from having a transponder. I have no design
authority, nor skills or facilities, to research it, build a prototype
installation, and then conduct whatever ground and flight tests are
required etc., to submit a properly engineered modification scheme for
EASA approval.

[To run Flarm, I use a separate battery, and it is all personal carry-
on equipment. PCAS is self contained, or can use a lead from the same
carry-on battery, so I regard it all as personal equipment. I have, of
course, ensured that it all safely stowed. PCAS and Flarm rest on
Velcro-type strips in top of my instrument panel coaming. Carry-on
transponders do not exist.]

Chris N.

As of 2012 it will be mode S, so not much point in buying anything else.

At 21:06 12 September 2009, Chris Nicholas wrote:

=93 . . . in the UK. A transponder mandatory zone means a mode S
transponder mandatory zone. =93

Wrong, at least for the new Stansted TMZ=92s:

=93 . . . access is permitted to any aircraft which is operating a fully
functioning pressure altitude reporting transponder in accordance with
the CAA=92s TMZ Policy Statement or to those aircraft which the aircraft
commander has obtained permission from the air traffic control unit at
Stansted Airport, Farnborough Radar, or Essex Radar, as may be
appropriate, to enter the restricted airspace.=94

So it needs Mode C, not necessarily Mode S, thought the latter also
incorporates mode C.

However, for new installations, I believe that Surfer is right =96 new
installations have to mode S.

If not so, no doubt somebody else will be along soon, To clarify.

Chris N.

On Sep 12, 2:45*pm, Mark Dickson wrote:
As of 2012 it will be mode S, so not much point in buying anything else.

At 21:06 12 September 2009, Chris Nicholas wrote:



=93 . . . in the UK. *A transponder mandatory zone means a mode S
transponder mandatory zone. =93

Wrong, at least for the new Stansted TMZ=92s:

=93 . . . access is permitted to any aircraft which is operating a fully
functioning pressure altitude reporting transponder in accordance with
the CAA=92s TMZ Policy Statement or to those aircraft which the aircraft
commander has obtained permission from the air traffic control unit at
Stansted Airport, Farnborough Radar, or Essex Radar, as may be
appropriate, to enter the restricted airspace.=94

So it needs Mode C, not necessarily Mode S, thought the latter also
incorporates mode C.

However, for new installations, I believe that Surfer is right =96 new
installations have to mode S.

If not so, no doubt somebody else will be along soon, To clarify.

Chris N.

And for USA readers we have much longer to worry about Mode-S type
things, so normally I would have said just install a Mode-C, save some
money and in a decade replace it with Mode-S or whatever. However the
Trig TT-21 is a game changer. You get Mode S/1090ES ADS-B out
capabilities for future possible use and more immediately, it is more
compact, easier to install and uses less power than other options.

So for those folks flying in those high density/fast jet traffic areas
like near Reno, there is even less excuses not to be using a
transponder.

It will be interesting to see how Becker and others respond. Becker's
new more compact VHF radio looks really nice.

Darryl

U¿ytkownik Darryl Ramm napisa³:

However the
Trig TT-21 is a game changer. You get Mode S/1090ES ADS-B out
capabilities for future possible use and more immediately, it is more
compact, easier to install and uses less power than other options.
Could you confirm that Trig will not work in A/C-only radar environment?

--
Wojtu¶.net

On Sep 13, 2:08*pm, Wojciech Scigala wrote:
U¿ytkownik Darryl Ramm napisa³:

However the
Trig TT-21 is a game changer. You get Mode S/1090ES ADS-B out
capabilities for future possible use and more immediately, it is more
compact, easier to install and uses less power than other options.

Could you confirm that Trig will not work in A/C-only radar environment?

--
Wojtu¶.net

It is a Mode S transponder. It is compatible with Mode A/C SSR. Think
of Mode S as an enhancement to Mode A/C. It's not an alternate choice.
It really makes no sense to ask if these Mode S transponders support
mode A/C.

Darryl

U¿ytkownik Darryl Ramm napisa³:

It is a Mode S transponder. It is compatible with Mode A/C SSR. Think
of Mode S as an enhancement to Mode A/C. It's not an alternate choice.
It really makes no sense to ask if these Mode S transponders support
mode A/C.
Paul's comparision table says it's just "Mode S", while Becker 6401 is
"Mode A, A+C, S". Technically it is possible to create a mode-S only
transponder. But I'm not sure if it's legal (certifiable).
If Trig supports A/C, that's good to know!

--
Wojtu¶.net

During my certification testing, the tech initially used a Mode A/C tester
as his Mode S test set was out being calibrated. The TRIG passed all Mode
A/C tests.

John