A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Runway incursions



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 19th 09, 06:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
C Gattman[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Runway incursions

On Sep 17, 5:48*pm, Jenny Taylor wrote:

I'm sorry, but you're incorrect, Mr./Ms. Gattman. *Stephen provided the proper definition of a runway incursion and cited its official source
from the FAA. *You can try to earn points with the debate club, but that won't change the facts. *Some news story, even cleverly excerpted, does
not replace nor supercede the FAA Orders


"Some news story?" You mean this one? http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/...m?newsId=10166

Published by the FAA? The people who make the FAA Orders? Dated July
30, 2009? Which is more recent than, say, the 2009 FAR/AIM? About a
week before the runway incursions the FAA told us were reported? The
news story at the FAA.GOV site under "fact sheets" that says "This
means that the total number of runway incursion reports increased
primarily because surface incidents are now classified as runway
incursions." That news story?

What's with the "debate club"? Are you being sarcastic now too? Why
would you do that? Is that something you would say to me in person?
Have I attacked you?

No, you are not sorry, and I'm simply quoting the same FAA website
that you're declaring authoritative. Maybe you can explain the FAA-
sourced material I quoted above or explain how I'm misinterpreting it?
Instead of tossing out some snarky-ass "debate club" comment? Maybe
not? Who ARE you?

-c



  #2  
Old September 19th 09, 02:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 721
Default Runway incursions

C Gattman wrote:

"Some news story?" You mean this one?
http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/...m?newsId=10166

Published by the FAA? The people who make the FAA Orders? Dated July
30, 2009? Which is more recent than, say, the 2009 FAR/AIM? About a
week before the runway incursions the FAA told us were reported? The
news story at the FAA.GOV site under "fact sheets" that says "This
means that the total number of runway incursion reports increased
primarily because surface incidents are now classified as runway
incursions." That news story?


Yes, that one, the one that says:


What is a Runway Incursion?
A runway incursion is any unauthorized intrusion onto a runway, regardless of whether or not an aircraft presents a potential conflict. This is the international standard, as defined by the International Civil Aviation Organization and adopted by the FAA in fiscal year 2008.

It is important to note that the FAA formerly tracked incidents that did not involve potential aircraft conflicts as surface incidents. These incidents were not classified as "runway incursions" and were tracked and monitored separately. Most of these events are now considered Category C or D incursions, which are low-risk incidents with either no conflict potential or ample time or distance to avoid a collision. This means that the total number of runway incursion reports increased primarily because surface incidents are now classified as runway incursions.

There are four categories of runway incursions:

a.. Category A is a serious incident in which a collision was narrowly avoided
b.. Category B is an incident in which separation decreases and there is a significant potential for collision, which may result in a time critical corrective/evasive response to avoid a collision.
c.. Category C is an incident characterized by ample time and/or distance to avoid a collision.
d.. Category D is an incident that meets the definition of runway incursion such as incorrect presence of a single vehicle/person/aircraft on the protected area of a surface designated for the landing and take-off of aircraft but with no immediate safety consequences.

  #3  
Old September 19th 09, 03:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Mark Hansen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default Runway incursions

On 09/18/09 22:03, C Gattman wrote:
On Sep 17, 5:48 pm, Jenny Taylor wrote:

I'm sorry, but you're incorrect, Mr./Ms. Gattman. Stephen provided the proper definition of a runway incursion and cited its official source
from the FAA. You can try to earn points with the debate club, but that won't change the facts. Some news story, even cleverly excerpted, does
not replace nor supercede the FAA Orders


"Some news story?" You mean this one? http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/...m?newsId=10166

Published by the FAA? The people who make the FAA Orders? Dated July
30, 2009? Which is more recent than, say, the 2009 FAR/AIM? About a
week before the runway incursions the FAA told us were reported? The
news story at the FAA.GOV site under "fact sheets" that says "This
means that the total number of runway incursion reports increased
primarily because surface incidents are now classified as runway
incursions." That news story?

What's with the "debate club"? Are you being sarcastic now too? Why
would you do that? Is that something you would say to me in person?
Have I attacked you?

No, you are not sorry, and I'm simply quoting the same FAA website
that you're declaring authoritative. Maybe you can explain the FAA-
sourced material I quoted above or explain how I'm misinterpreting it?



Chris,

I believe you have misinterpreted that article. In my opinion, what
it is referring to as incidents that are now being tracked as Category
C and D runway incursions were still occurring on runways. It's just
that they were considered low-risk, so they were previously "categorized"
as surface incidences instead of runway incursions. I don't believe it
is stating that incidents occurring on other parts of the airport are
now going to be categorized as runway incursions.

Of course, as you've stated, the bottom line is that you not operate
on the airport without proper clearance, regardless of which specific
rule would be violated.

Best Regards,


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
  #4  
Old September 19th 09, 03:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 721
Default Runway incursions

Mark Hansen wrote:

I believe you have misinterpreted that article. In my opinion, what
it is referring to as incidents that are now being tracked as Category
C and D runway incursions were still occurring on runways. It's just
that they were considered low-risk, so they were previously
"categorized" as surface incidences instead of runway incursions. I
don't believe it is stating that incidents occurring on other parts
of the airport are now going to be categorized as runway incursions.


Bingo. The definition of runway incursion was changed about a year ago.
Under the former definition an unauthorized operation on a runway at a
towered airport where there was no risk of collision or loss of separation,
while still a surface incident, was not a runway incursion. Now it is. At
no time has an unauthorized operation on a taxiway been considered a runway
incursion.


  #5  
Old September 27th 09, 04:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Jenny Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Runway incursions

C Gattman wrote:
On Sep 17, 5:48 pm, Jenny Taylor wrote:

I'm sorry, but you're incorrect, Mr./Ms. Gattman. Stephen provided the proper definition of a runway incursion and cited its official source
from the FAA. You can try to earn points with the debate club, but that won't change the facts. Some news story, even cleverly excerpted, does
not replace nor supercede the FAA Orders


"Some news story?" You mean this one? http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/...m?newsId=10166


Yes, you might wish to *read* the URL you cite. It does not support
your claim that runway incursions can occur on *taxiways*.

Published by the FAA? The people who make the FAA Orders? Dated July
30, 2009? Which is more recent than, say, the 2009 FAR/AIM?


The FAA doesn't publish regulations on an annual basis, so there is no
"2009 FAR/AIM" published by the FAA. Your favorite publisher compiles
regulations and publishes such a title when they feel like it, which is
likely obsolete when the ink hits the paper. Federal regulations can
and do change whenever the agency creating the regulations feels like
it, with certain restrictions for public notification, public comment
periods, etc.

About a
week before the runway incursions the FAA told us were reported? The
news story at the FAA.GOV site under "fact sheets" that says "This
means that the total number of runway incursion reports increased
primarily because surface incidents are now classified as runway
incursions." That news story?

What's with the "debate club"? Are you being sarcastic now too? Why
would you do that? Is that something you would say to me in person?


Absolutely!

Have I attacked you?


Not that I claimed.

No, you are not sorry, and I'm simply quoting the same FAA website
that you're declaring authoritative. Maybe you can explain the FAA-
sourced material I quoted above or explain how I'm misinterpreting it?


It states that a runway incursion involves a runway.

Instead of tossing out some snarky-ass "debate club" comment?


Wow! Guess I really hit home!

Maybe
not? Who ARE you?


I am someone who *understands* what a runway incursion is.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ILS Runway 1, Visual approach runway 4 KMEI - Video A Lieberma[_2_] Owning 0 July 4th 09 06:13 PM
Runway Red Lights to cut down on incursions. Gig 601XL Builder[_2_] Piloting 23 March 3rd 08 08:28 PM
Runway incursions James Robinson Piloting 6 November 10th 07 06:29 PM
Rwy incursions Hankal Piloting 10 November 16th 03 02:33 AM
Talk about runway incursions... Dave Russell Piloting 7 August 13th 03 02:09 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.