Runway incursions

On Sep 21, 6:23*am, BeechSundowner wrote:


Not sure how you feel about instructors saying "becauese I am an
instructor" being an answer to a request for source of information,

You have taken my words completely out of context.

His response to me was very insulting especially when I provide a FAA reference and he had nothing tangible
to support his position..

Awfer... are you saying I didn't quote sources? Why, McNicoll
corrected one of them. How'd he do that if I offered "nothing
tangible"?

What in hell is going on out here?

I am not a CFI but that kind of response "because I am instructor" doesn't cut it when a student challenges his or her position. *

What I said was:

Because I'm an instructor and I brought it up on the student forum I feel obliged to "reciprocate" and clarify for other readers.

I don't see how you could interpret that as "I'm right because I am an
instructor." My point was that as an instructor I feel obligated to
clarify in a case where I say something and somebody challenges it or
asks for clarification. If I say something incorrect or, in reply, you
say something in correct, I feel obligated to sort it out rather than
have one fallacy or another (mine or yours) ending the discussion.
Previously and otherwise, I'd have simply told a few people out here
to go **** up a rope.

The next thing I said was: "Apparently, telling you what I saw happen
has no value to you so clearly you don't respect my word." To
clarify, that means there's no regulation or official definition that
says I heard an FBO consultant tell me that tower said there were two
runway incursions reported that day. I can't provide anything
"tangible" without divulging people's information in the internet who
may not appreciate it.

I'm starting to think that if I saw a C-172 accident, somebody would
take issue with me. (Some people insist it's a CE-172, when I'll I'm
saying is, I saw the goddam plane crash.)

Our competitor just had their third R22 accident in about a month
yesterday. Unfortunately, the last one crashed and burned with the
student and instructor onboard. Let's keep things in perspective here.
I have more important things to worry about in my job than what
somebody on the usenet thinks of me, having never met me, and I have
lots of better things to do than rifle through the internet looking
for "taxiway incursion" definitions or trying to make sure that
somebody isn't seeming to look for ways to take my words out of
context.

Guys...everybody. Stop picking fights where there are none. If you
disagree with something somebody says, say so and ask for
clarification or find a constructive way to disagree. It's perfectly
okay to say "I think you're wrong, and here's why," but, you don't
have to be a dick about it. Otherwise, the forum will continue to
devolve into flamewars and spam as it has for the last years.

-c

On Sep 21, 6:14*pm, C Gattman wrote:

Awfer... are you saying I didn't quote sources? *Why, McNicoll
corrected one of them. How'd he do that if I offered "nothing
tangible"?

Only when Steve push you to put up or shut up did you offer anything.
When I provided my link at that time (READ this thread), you offered
me nothing. It's here in this thread if you don't believe me.

What I said was:

Because I'm an instructor and I brought it up on the student forum I feel obliged to "reciprocate" and clarify for other readers.

I don't see how you could interpret that as "I'm right because I am an
instructor." *My point was that as an instructor I feel obligated to
clarify in a case where I say something and somebody challenges it or
asks for clarification.

Which I did, I challenged you to give me a source of your information
OUTSIDE hearsay.. I asked you for a source you wouldn't produce WHEN
I ASKED. Your answer was

Because I'm an instructor and I brought it up on the student forum I
feel obliged to "reciprocate" and clarify for other readers.
Apparently, telling you what I saw happen has no value to you so
clearly you don't respect my word. I'm not out here to engage in some
sort of penis-measuring contest with a couple of usenet know-it-alls,
if that's what this is going to turn into.

Nothing taken out of context, word for word I copied and pasted your
response above. What kind of CRAP instructor are you? You want
respect GIVE RESPECT. I see nothing respectful out of your response
to me.

I didn't say I know it all, I responded back with a source supporting
what I thought was a definition of a runway incursion. You my friend
did not return that courtesy TO ME for which I asked from you. It's
all here in this thread.

On Sep 21, 7:37*pm, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 21, 6:14*pm, C Gattman wrote:

Awfer... are you saying I didn't quote sources? *Why, McNicoll
corrected one of them. How'd he do that if I offered "nothing
tangible"?

Only when Steve push you to put up or shut up did you offer anything.

Oh, so now you're saying I -did- offer something. Get your bull****
straight. That tells me everything I need to know about you.

*I asked you for a source you wouldn't produce WHEN I ASKED. *

LOL! You must think I owe you something? Do I work for you? Save
that crap for your wife or your kids whatever.

Your answer was

Because I'm an instructor and I brought it up on the student forum I feel obliged to "reciprocate" and clarify for other readers.

So WTF is your problem with that, besides reading comprehension?
(It's a rhetorical question. You lost my respect with your insult
below.)

I didn't say I know it all, I responded back with a source supporting what I thought was a definition of a runway incursion. *You my friend
did not return that courtesy TO ME

Do not call me your friend. You apparently didn't bother to read the
material I presented to McNicoll on the forum. I see no need to repeat
myself in a print forum and I don't owe you courtesy. I posted all
kinds of URLs in this thread including some from the FAA and one--
we've already gone over this, but---that McNicoll e-mail and had
removed.

Whether you agree with them or not, you know I posted them. So now
you're saying what I told you I observed was "hearsay." If I say I
went to the Hillsboro Airshow, is that "hearsay" too? Sorry to the
other readers here, but, I'm not going to post my coworkers' phone
numbers or whatever just so some pompous internet asshole with a
pseudonym can verify "hearsay."

If you think I'm obligated to prove what I say I saw to every obtuse
usenet jackass on the forum, you're wildly mistaken. I already
clarified what I meant, and you still want to fight about it, so,
clearly you're more interested in fighting than trying to understand
me. As proof:

What kind of CRAP instructor are you?

One that doesn't indulge snide, obtuse usenet jackasses. Glad you
asked. You have one hell of a lack of a clue if you think I -owe- you
anything. I should have just ignored your reply completely, huh? And
now you're insulting me too, so, whatever.

If I disagree with you you don't see me out here blathering about what
kind of CRAP PILOT you are or CRAP CONTROLLER somebody else is.
(Assuming you're a pilot. I mean, it's all just hearsay until somebody
proves it, right?) I'm sorry, I figured you were older than that.
Again, that tells me absolutely everything I need to know about you.

If I don't bow to your disagreement or jump to your satisfaction on
demand, the character assassination begins. You and your little
chronies here can pat each other on the backs. You really told -me-,
didn't you? *cackle*

Bye. The last word is yours.

-c

C Gattman wrote:

Only when Steve push you to put up or shut up did you offer anything.


Oh, so now you're saying I -did- offer something. Get your bull****
straight. That tells me everything I need to know about you.


Do you understand that what you offered proved your position to be
incorrect?



I didn't say I know it all, I responded back with a source
supporting what I thought was a definition of a runway incursion.
You my friend did not return that courtesy TO ME


Do not call me your friend. You apparently didn't bother to read the
material I presented to McNicoll on the forum.


Apparently you didn't bother to read it either.



I see no need to repeat
myself in a print forum and I don't owe you courtesy. I posted all
kinds of URLs in this thread including some from the FAA and one--
we've already gone over this, but---that McNicoll e-mail and had
removed.


Gene Benson chose to take it down after it was pointed out that it contained
incorrect information.



Bye. The last word is yours.


Haven't you said that before?

On Sep 23, 3:16*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

I see no need to repeat myself in a print forum and I don't owe you
courtesy. I posted all
kinds of URLs in this thread including some from the FAA and one-- we've already gone over this, but---that McNicoll e-mail and had
removed.

Gene Benson chose to take it down after it was pointed out that it contained incorrect information.

I just said that, knucklehead. Thank you for acknowledging that I
posted sources. BS indicated otherwise.

Bye. The last word is yours.

Haven't you said that before?

Was I replying to you, or to Beech? I gave you the last word in our
dialogue, and I extended the same courtesy to BS. I have no idea why
you can't figure that out, unless you two are some sort of couple.

Now you're just out here trying to pile on more flames.

-c

On Sep 23, 11:50*am, C Gattman wrote:

I just said that, knucklehead. *Thank you for acknowledging that I
posted sources. BS indicated otherwise.

You really do have a reading comprehension problem. And you are an
instructor???

YOUR RESPONSE TO ME when I ASKED YOU to back up your statement was.

Because I'm an instructor and I brought it up on the student forum I
feel obliged to "reciprocate" and clarify for other readers.
Apparently, telling you what I saw happen has no value to you so
clearly you don't respect my word. I'm not out here to engage in some
sort of penis-measuring contest with a couple of usenet know-it-alls,
if that's what this is going to turn into.

So... tell me where in the above did you provide ME a source. As I
stated earlier, "because I am an instructor" doesn't cut it.

I indicated you did not provide ME to back up your statement above.
It's all here in this thread as you can see, I just keep copying and
pasting your very own response to ME. If you call the above statement
a quality answer to your students or students in a newgroup forum,
GAWD HELP YOUR STUDENTS.

On Sep 23, 11:50*am, C Gattman wrote:

I just said that, knucklehead. *Thank you for acknowledging that I
posted sources. BS indicated otherwise.


Actually, you didn't say that. You said, "that McNicoll e-mail and
had removed."



Was I replying to you, or to Beech? *I gave you the last word in our
dialogue, and I extended the same courtesy to BS. *I have no idea why
you can't figure that out, unless you two are some sort of couple.


How many last words have you to give?



Now you're just out here trying to pile on more flames.


Nope, I just wanna keep you posting.

On Sep 23, 10:55*am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

Now you're just out here trying to pile on more flames.

Nope, I just wanna keep you posting.

That's just weird. Yew just can't quit me, can ya?

You're a sick man.

*plonk*

..

On Sep 23, 4:23*am, C Gattman wrote:

If I don't bow to your disagreement or jump to your satisfaction on
demand, the character assassination begins. You and your little
chronies here can pat each other on the backs. You really told -me-,
didn't you? * *cackle*

Kinda ironic, you an instructor being defensive when called to task in
supporting something you say. Thread stands for itself my friend.

I have never met an instructor as bad as you in responses like this
thread but like everything else in life, there is always a first time
for everything.

Just like I told Flaps50, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the
way out.