Landing on Tow - YouTube link.

On 10 nov, 08:31, Bob wrote:
I wonder how this would go in a Nimbus 4D? Any opinions? ;

I did that at Saint-Auban (France) in 1995 with one of their
instructors in the back of the Nimbus. Followed the rules: opened the
airbrakes and went under the slipstream. Not really difficult, but the
towplane must descend very slowly! In our case, whenever the descent
rate was higher than something like - 1,5 m/s (some 300 ft/min, if I
remember correctly), the glider started to overtake. I then had to
slip the beast to keep the cable under tension. That wasn't really
funny...

By the way, that was my first flight on type, and the towpilot was a
pupil with instructor.

This exercise is done regularily in Europe. In my opinion, the big
difficulty is the correct training of the towpilot. He has to know the
characteristics of the glider he is towing, and not forget to come in
higher than usual to allow for the gider being lower and behind. The
glider pilot should just have to follow...

Not this again. JS is spreading the LOT disease to Vegas! Bad Jim!

I suppose this is why he bought the glider with the noisy bit so he
avoids such DANGEROUS procedures as aero tow altogether. Thank God
you are SAFE now!

As with JS, I am amazed (but probably shouldn't be) at how many folks
categorically state that LOT's are dangerous - having never
experienced them. If these same people had never done a standard aero
tow, they would probably be exclaiming how dangerous that was. Maybe
if the "It's dangerous" types think of LOT's as a normal tow in the
negative direction you can get past the baseless fears.

Have done dozens and dozens of these with pre-solo kids, pre-solo old
folks, high time test pilots, and and everything in between, no one
felt threatened. It was part of the pre-solo syllabus when I first
started working at Skylark in the early 90's. In all that time I
observed only 1 "blown" landing that required a release due to the
USAF test pilot forgetting the briefing (which he gave) and began
manipulating the spoilers on final.

There is no need to go into low tow or for the glider pilot to do much
of anything unusual. Deploy full air brakes (no wheel brake), sit in
high tow, and let the tuggie set up a 5 kt down, 60-65 kt pattern
speed (Pawnee). Flair and land when it looks right. Use the wheel
brake only to keep the rope taught.

Or Not. I understand that being wrapped in cotton balls and standing
in the closet is pretty safe.

wrote:
Not this again. JS is spreading the LOT disease to Vegas! Bad Jim!

I suppose this is why he bought the glider with the noisy bit so he
avoids such DANGEROUS procedures as aero tow altogether. Thank God
you are SAFE now!

As with JS, I am amazed (but probably shouldn't be) at how many folks
categorically state that LOT's are dangerous - having never
experienced them. If these same people had never done a standard aero
tow, they would probably be exclaiming how dangerous that was. Maybe
if the "It's dangerous" types think of LOT's as a normal tow in the
negative direction you can get past the baseless fears.

Have done dozens and dozens of these with pre-solo kids, pre-solo old
folks, high time test pilots, and and everything in between, no one
felt threatened. It was part of the pre-solo syllabus when I first
started working at Skylark in the early 90's. In all that time I
observed only 1 "blown" landing that required a release due to the
USAF test pilot forgetting the briefing (which he gave) and began
manipulating the spoilers on final.

There is no need to go into low tow or for the glider pilot to do much
of anything unusual. Deploy full air brakes (no wheel brake), sit in
high tow, and let the tuggie set up a 5 kt down, 60-65 kt pattern
speed (Pawnee). Flair and land when it looks right. Use the wheel
brake only to keep the rope taught.

Or Not. I understand that being wrapped in cotton balls and standing
in the closet is pretty safe.



The point was that it is unnecessary since it is an extremely unlikely
event. Balanced against that, it is completely unnecessary to train this
on a regular basis. There are other more important things to train, I
mentioned rope brakes and power loss on the tug as two good examples. I
think we can come up with a bunch of more useful things that spends the
money more wisely.

This is the type of emergency procedure that you can learn theoretically
and bring forward when necessary.

I don't fly around doing outlandnings for training purposes either, not
because it is dangerous or unsafe, but because most outlandnings poses a
small risk of damaging the glider. It might be as simple as a small
hidden rock in the grass that knocks a big dent in your fuselage. Or
similar.

Not dangerous at all, but completely unnecessary. For it to be worth the
risk I want a real reason, like the familiar "didn't find enough lift"

People claim that this is done in Europe on a regular basis, in which
country/countries may I ask ?

/AndersP

On Nov 11, 2:20*pm, AndersP wrote:
wrote:

People claim that this is done in Europe on a regular basis, in which
country/countries may I ask ?

France for one. It's part of the PVT curriculum there. When you see a
student doing this maneuver, you know he is close to fly solo....

Richard
Phoenix,AZ

Here in Argentina it´s not a required maneuver but lots of clubs do it
as a pre solo confidence builder. A double release failure is highly
unlikely but it´s a good test to see if the student responds well to
an unusual situation.
We usually do a touch and go and then a low release to simulate a rope
break.
A good briefing and a good tow pilot make it a fun exercise.

Juan Carlos

JC wrote:
as a pre solo confidence builder.

And as a good exercise for a future aero-retrieve or aero-relocation,
during which it is not unlikely to face a situation where one must sink
on tow a couple of hundred feet (due to clouds, airspace, whatever).

Tom Knauff says the rare double release failure has occurred.
On your checkride, it is required -- sort of.

In the USA the "Double Release Failure" is included in the Private
Glider Pilot Practical Test Standards (PTS), Area of Operation IV,
Task G. It states that the applicant "Demonstrates simulated aero tow
abnormal occurrences as required by the examiner." Double release
failure is also referenced in the Commercial and Flight Instructor-
Glider PTS.

Some examiners in the USA require this demonstration. Others ask the
applicant to explain their actions (and signals).
Ask your CFIG and Examiner about this Task (and any other) in advance
in order to prepare for it.

Some important points.

The wake (prop wash / wing wash) of the towplane in descent will trail
behind almost level. The glider should be under this wake during the
descent.

Airbrakes should be kept unlocked and in hand, then deployed as
required for drag. The towrope must be kept tight.

The glider pilot should not be in a hurry to touchdown, but definitely
touch down just a bit before the towplane. Glider touch down while
the towplane is still higher than 1 meter may slow the towplane to
near stall.

Towpilots must understand the mission, particularly pattern shape,
power settings, descent rate and the options for go-around on tow.

I've done it many times at several sites after receiving excellent
instruction from Cindy at Caracole in California City many years ago.
Training is the key for all glider pilots and towpilots for this
maneuver.

Should we ask FAA to eliminate this requirement? NO, we don't need
the FAA digging into our PTS.

Do I require this maneuver at Marfa, Texas on your Practical Test
(checkride)?

Come visit! I'll show you a good time, and help you toward your
goals.

Burt Compton, Master CFI / FAA Designated Pilot Examiner
Marfa Gliders Soaring Center, southwest Texas
www.flygliders.com