Three take offs = three landings at Newton MS and Madison MS - Video

On Nov 23, 4:19*pm, " wrote:
On Nov 23, 11:43*am, a wrote:

The thing you may be missing is you are used to flying a certain glide
slope, probably defined by the VASI. On a short field for me at least
the final approach over the obstruction to flare is MUCH steeper. I'm
trading off comfort and some margin for a very short roll-out.

I bet you are right on what I am used to for glide. *Instrument world
does make a mess of visual approaches and it's nuances.

Generally I don't miss the VASI or PAPI, as that is how I learned )
keeping the bug spot on the numbers), but what I haven't had much
practice "for real reasons" is that 50 foot obtacle clearance.

Imaginary trees not quite as "intimidating" when the real deal trees
tend to block the lights at approach end of the runway on a low glide
path. :-) and I really didn't feel that low coming into M23 as I would
have made the runway (without the trees) *had the fan quit. *The last
short field airport I went to was 2700 foot and it was much easier
since there were no obstacles.

So in a nutshell, short fields I can hang with, it's that extra
variable having trees :-) that give it a little extra slam dunking
challenge for me.

I can pretty much assure you if you get slow with a steep approach
angle the trees will be less a mind games problem. Come in at a
steeper approach angle, aim for touchdown 1200 feet short of the
turnoff -- you'll be surprised at how easy the short field technique
is. 2700 feet is simply not a short field, I'd be aiming to touch down
1500 feet from the turn off in a routine landing. If you go slower in
effect you'll be flying an approach angle a 172 with some flaps
deployed flies, and if it feels dicey the first couple of times
there's plenty of room for pitching down a bit. Try it at 2000 feet
agl, get a bit slower, then watch airspeed and rate of descent. You're
apt to be surprised at how comfortable you'd be at something a lot
more than 3 degrees.

A final not-in-the-book technique is to carry a bit of a slip down the
center line -- much easier if there's a cross wind -- but the Mooney,
normally a very clean airplane, turns into a pig when flown a bit
sideways.

All of this, of course, assumes one is very familiar with the
airplane. I am very comfortable closer to the edge in my airplane than
I would be in something like a 172, which is a much more forgiving
airplane, unless I had a bunch of recent hours in it. I would not do
any of the things I mentioned with a non pilot aboard, and even with
one who's not a CFI I'd be doing a lot of talking to avoid having the
right hand seat badly stained. After all, I have to get out of the
airplane over that seat.

Had a thought -- be fun to do some of those things with some of the
pseudo pilots who post here aboard. My pre flight check list would
include the challenge "Depends?" with the required response "On".

On Nov 23, 3:53*pm, a wrote:

A final not-in-the-book technique is to carry a bit of a slip down the
center line -- much easier if there's a cross wind -- but the Mooney,
normally a very clean airplane, turns into a pig when flown a bit
sideways.

I actually considered this slip method and probably would have tried
it had I had some time for a third or fourth approach. I can get
outstanding sink rate with my Sundowner slipping, just seems it's all
or nothing. Either it doesn't want to stop flying (as in the video)
or drops like a man hole cover.

Looking at the raw video, on my taxi back to 13, I counted 7 white
centerline stripes of which 5 were before the taxiway turnoff. Maybe
somebody can calculate the actual distance it took me to do a 180 in
the middle of the 7th stripe? http://www.airnav.com/airport/M23 has a
good picture of the airport and 13 is the left side of the airport
where I landed.

Second landing took longer to stop but I landed pretty close to where
the first landing was.

For me.....

It's finding that happy medium with power adjustments for me. Nose
probably like your Mooney points down with flaps deployed so balancing
that heavy nose with my stabilator at slow speeds gets rather dicey as
when I get behind the power curve, I start losing that stabilator
authority.. Not sure about Mooneys, but I am very forward CG so when
I deploy flaps, my ASI actually will increase slightly due to the
pitch down movement until drag kicks in..

I agree 2700 really not short but it's short relative to this pilots
experience. :-) and even in the video, I had it stopped well within
2000 feet (or less). I just need much more practice around trees!

Never thought of depends as a preflight checklist! I should add it LOL

On Nov 23, 6:04*pm, " wrote:
On Nov 23, 3:53*pm, a wrote:

A final not-in-the-book technique is to carry a bit of a slip down the
center line -- much easier if there's a cross wind -- but the Mooney,
normally a very clean airplane, turns into a pig when flown a bit
sideways.

I actually considered this slip method and probably would have tried
it had I had some time for a third or fourth approach. *I can get
outstanding sink rate with my Sundowner slipping, just seems it's all
or nothing. *Either it doesn't want to stop flying (as in the video)
or drops like a man hole cover.

Looking at the raw video, on my taxi back to 13, I counted 7 white
centerline stripes of which 5 were before the taxiway turnoff. *Maybe
somebody can calculate the actual distance it took me to do a 180 in
the middle of the 7th stripe? *http://www.airnav.com/airport/M23has a
good picture of the airport and 13 is the left side of the airport
where I landed.

Second landing took longer to stop but I landed pretty close to where
the first landing was.

For me.....

It's finding that happy medium with power adjustments for me. *Nose
probably like your Mooney points down with flaps deployed so balancing
that heavy nose with my stabilator at slow speeds gets rather dicey as
when I get behind the power curve, I start losing that stabilator
authority.. *Not sure about Mooneys, but I am very forward CG so when
I deploy flaps, my ASI actually will increase slightly due to the
pitch down movement until drag kicks in..

I agree 2700 really not short but it's short relative to this pilots
experience. :-) and even in the video, I had it stopped well within
2000 feet (or less). *I just need much more practice around trees!

Never thought of depends as a preflight checklist! *I should add it LOL

Not wanting to abuse dead horses here, but may I suggest you think a
little bit differently about runways? Don't consider them starting on
the numbers, think about them starting a comfortable distance from
your turn off point -- say, 2000 feet short of it. Then all runways in
your mind's eye are 2000 feet long, with perhaps a mile of over- run
or lead in. You'll fly more and taxi less. More importantly, you'll be
getting off the active sooner, which once every 500 years might save
your life. One caution -- if you're landing at an uncontrolled airport
with a long runway and there's someone at the threshold, be careful. I
tend to fly the approach in that circumstance so that my airplane is
where that pilot might be looking (rather than much higher), then add
power and fly the extra 500 feet (or whatever) down the runway before
touching down.

These are all really minor things, it's asking the usual questions
about what might be done better, and refining techniques. That is
really are what we should look for on RAP: Dudley was the model for
giving that kind of information.

On Nov 24, 3:53*am, a wrote:
On Nov 23, 6:04*pm, " wrote:





On Nov 23, 3:53*pm, a wrote:

A final not-in-the-book technique is to carry a bit of a slip down the
center line -- much easier if there's a cross wind -- but the Mooney,
normally a very clean airplane, turns into a pig when flown a bit
sideways.

I actually considered this slip method and probably would have tried
it had I had some time for a third or fourth approach. *I can get
outstanding sink rate with my Sundowner slipping, just seems it's all
or nothing. *Either it doesn't want to stop flying (as in the video)
or drops like a man hole cover.

Looking at the raw video, on my taxi back to 13, I counted 7 white
centerline stripes of which 5 were before the taxiway turnoff. *Maybe
somebody can calculate the actual distance it took me to do a 180 in
the middle of the 7th stripe? *http://www.airnav.com/airport/M23hasa
good picture of the airport and 13 is the left side of the airport
where I landed.

Second landing took longer to stop but I landed pretty close to where
the first landing was.

For me.....

It's finding that happy medium with power adjustments for me. *Nose
probably like your Mooney points down with flaps deployed so balancing
that heavy nose with my stabilator at slow speeds gets rather dicey as
when I get behind the power curve, I start losing that stabilator
authority.. *Not sure about Mooneys, but I am very forward CG so when
I deploy flaps, my ASI actually will increase slightly due to the
pitch down movement until drag kicks in..

I agree 2700 really not short but it's short relative to this pilots
experience. :-) and even in the video, I had it stopped well within
2000 feet (or less). *I just need much more practice around trees!

Never thought of depends as a preflight checklist! *I should add it LOL

Not wanting to abuse dead horses here, but may I suggest you think a
little bit differently about runways? Don't consider them starting on
the numbers, think about them starting a comfortable distance from
your turn off point -- say, 2000 feet short of it. Then all runways in
your mind's eye *are 2000 feet long, with perhaps a mile of over- run
or lead in. You'll fly more and taxi less. More importantly, you'll be
getting off the active sooner, which once every 500 years might save
your life. One caution -- if you're landing at an uncontrolled airport
with a long runway and there's someone at the threshold, be careful. I
tend to fly the approach in that circumstance so that my airplane is
where that pilot might be looking (rather than much higher), then add
power and fly the extra 500 feet (or whatever) down the runway before
touching down.

These are all really minor things, it's asking the usual questions
about what might be done better, and refining techniques. That is
really are what we should look for on RAP: Dudley was the model for
giving that kind of information.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I find this type of information to be very useful,
and enjoyable to read...at 4 in the morning when
I'd like to be in the air.

Thnx, Mark