Can you say: Payne Stewart ? - Explosive Decompression? Try it yourself, numbnuts.

Yes,
I agree, and as an undergrad of ERAU, and now grad student, along with
22 years active duty, the Payne Stewart accident has been gone over
time and again, if I ever see another Power Point presentation on it,
I'll puke. (that and the aloha air incident, concorde, TWA flight 800,
swissair 111, etc.) but, with a failure (leak) in the
pressurization/oxygen system at a lower level, it would have induced
hypoxia, and in a lot of cases, unless you know it is happening,
everyone that has ever experienced this or looked at test results know
that the reactions to hypoxia are totally uncontrolled. Who is to say
that anyone would have donned an O2 mask if they didn't know what was
happening?? The crew then passed out, and the aircraft continued to
climb and cruise until the leak resulted in internal freezing of the
cabin. I agree there was no "explosive decompression".
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:36:28 GMT, Mike Marron
wrote:

(Rick Durden) wrote:

Evidence examined thus far indicates that the Payne Stewart crash was
decompression, but not explosive. The old Lears had some interesting
systems and according to some reports the company had not maintained
its airplanes all that well or worked off some of the squawks. Those
who have flown the old Lears can give a number of different scenarios
that would generate the gradual loss of cabin pressure that doomed the
Stewart flight.

Back in 1999 I happened to be renting hangar space from the pilot
who trained the Capt. of the Learjet that Stewart was flying in when
it crashed.

Stewart's Capt. was a highly experienced ex-military type who flew
tankers in the Air Force. My pilot friend whom I was renting hangar
space from had also flown the exact same jet (47BA) to the Caribbean
the previous week.

According to him, the jet was well maintained and he was absolutely
baffled by the whole Payne Stewart incident. A sudden decompression
at FL 230 should still give a person more than enough time to don a
mask and the only thing he knew was that the Learjet had just taken
off from Orlando and was at FL 230 over Gainseville (Florida) and
cleared to FL 390 when they lost radio contact with ATC.

In any event, it must've been an eerie sight for the F-16 jocks who
interecepted the Learjet and saw the bodies slumped over, frost on
the windows from the frozen water vapor inside the cabin.

fudog50 wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Back in 1999 I happened to be renting hangar space from the pilot
who trained the Capt. of the Learjet that Stewart was flying in when
it crashed.

Stewart's Capt. was a highly experienced ex-military type who flew
tankers in the Air Force. My pilot friend whom I was renting hangar
space from had also flown the exact same jet (47BA) to the Caribbean
the previous week.

According to him, the jet was well maintained and he was absolutely
baffled by the whole Payne Stewart incident. A sudden decompression
at FL 230 should still give a person more than enough time to don a
mask and the only thing he knew was that the Learjet had just taken
off from Orlando and was at FL 230 over Gainseville (Florida) and
cleared to FL 390 when they lost radio contact with ATC.

In any event, it must've been an eerie sight for the F-16 jocks who
interecepted the Learjet and saw the bodies slumped over, frost on
the windows from the frozen water vapor inside the cabin.

Yes,
I agree, and as an undergrad of ERAU, and now grad student, along with
22 years active duty, the Payne Stewart accident has been gone over
time and again, if I ever see another Power Point presentation on it,
I'll puke. (that and the aloha air incident, concorde, TWA flight 800,
swissair 111, etc.) but, with a failure (leak) in the
pressurization/oxygen system at a lower level, it would have induced
hypoxia, and in a lot of cases, unless you know it is happening,
everyone that has ever experienced this or looked at test results know
that the reactions to hypoxia are totally uncontrolled. Who is to say
that anyone would have donned an O2 mask if they didn't know what was
happening?? The crew then passed out, and the aircraft continued to
climb and cruise until the leak resulted in internal freezing of the
cabin. I agree there was no "explosive decompression".

As I mentioned, the Capt. was a highly trained, extremely experienced
ex-military pilot whom had undergone chamber training so no matter
how insidious, he undoubtedly knew how to recognize the telltale
symptoms of hypoxia (e.g: degraded vision, lightheadedness,
discoloration of the fingernails and lips, etc.) AFAIK, it remains a
mystery as to precisely what happened on that incredibly strange day
in 1999.

Mike Marron wrote:

fudog50 wrote:

Mike Marron wrote:


Back in 1999 I happened to be renting hangar space from the pilot
who trained the Capt. of the Learjet that Stewart was flying in when
it crashed.


Stewart's Capt. was a highly experienced ex-military type who flew
tankers in the Air Force. My pilot friend whom I was renting hangar
space from had also flown the exact same jet (47BA) to the Caribbean
the previous week.


According to him, the jet was well maintained and he was absolutely
baffled by the whole Payne Stewart incident. A sudden decompression
at FL 230 should still give a person more than enough time to don a
mask and the only thing he knew was that the Learjet had just taken
off from Orlando and was at FL 230 over Gainseville (Florida) and
cleared to FL 390 when they lost radio contact with ATC.


In any event, it must've been an eerie sight for the F-16 jocks who
interecepted the Learjet and saw the bodies slumped over, frost on
the windows from the frozen water vapor inside the cabin.


Yes,
I agree, and as an undergrad of ERAU, and now grad student, along with
22 years active duty, the Payne Stewart accident has been gone over
time and again, if I ever see another Power Point presentation on it,
I'll puke. (that and the aloha air incident, concorde, TWA flight 800,
swissair 111, etc.) but, with a failure (leak) in the
pressurization/oxygen system at a lower level, it would have induced
hypoxia, and in a lot of cases, unless you know it is happening,
everyone that has ever experienced this or looked at test results know
that the reactions to hypoxia are totally uncontrolled. Who is to say
that anyone would have donned an O2 mask if they didn't know what was
happening?? The crew then passed out, and the aircraft continued to
climb and cruise until the leak resulted in internal freezing of the
cabin. I agree there was no "explosive decompression".


As I mentioned, the Capt. was a highly trained, extremely experienced
ex-military pilot whom had undergone chamber training so no matter
how insidious, he undoubtedly knew how to recognize the telltale
symptoms of hypoxia (e.g: degraded vision, lightheadedness,
discoloration of the fingernails and lips, etc.) AFAIK, it remains a
mystery as to precisely what happened on that incredibly strange day
in 1999.

I reckon the pilots weren't wearing O2 masks. ISTR on a small plane at
high alt, at least one is supposed to wear one at all times, to prevent
just this type of crash.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1999/991025-1.htm

Crew incapacitation due to a loss of cabin pressurization about 20mins
after departure. Continued flight for almost 2h40min before spiralling
out of control, crashing in an open field. Among the passengers was
professional golfer Payne Stewart.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "Incapacitation of the flight crewmembers as a result of
their failure to receive supplemental oxygen following a loss of cabin
pressurization, for undetermined reasons. "

Mike Marron wrote:
fudog50 wrote:

As I mentioned, the Capt. was a highly trained, extremely experienced
ex-military pilot whom had undergone chamber training so no matter
how insidious, he undoubtedly knew how to recognize the telltale
symptoms of hypoxia (e.g: degraded vision, lightheadedness,
discoloration of the fingernails and lips, etc.) AFAIK, it remains a
mystery as to precisely what happened on that incredibly strange day
in 1999.


It is especially strange given that there is an altitude alerter
horn which goes off when the cabin exceeds about 10,000' pressure
altitude (IIRC, one thing the recovered CVR tape showed was that
the warning horn was sounding, confirming that the cabin pressure
had in fact exceeded 10,000'), which should have warned the crew of
any insidious problem before they became unable to respond.

Mike

Mike Marron wrote:


As I mentioned, the Capt. was a highly trained, extremely experienced
ex-military pilot whom had undergone chamber training so no matter
how insidious, he undoubtedly knew how to recognize the telltale
symptoms of hypoxia (e.g: degraded vision, lightheadedness,
discoloration of the fingernails and lips, etc.) AFAIK, it remains a
mystery as to precisely what happened on that incredibly strange day
in 1999.


Gee...this makes no sense to me, mind you I know very little
about the Lear 35 but isn't there any indications of the cabin
altitude built into the pressurization controller?, Or do you
suppose that two experienced pilots would just ignore their cabin
altitude?, doesn't compute to me.

What you say about hypoxia effects aren't noticeable by the
victim, an observer (not so affected) may see some however.
You should try a 'chambre ride' sometime, quite surprising.
--

-Gord.