Why is Stealth So Important?

I read the original thread earlier and had a laff, it just goes to
show how little everyone knows about CWO's and I hope it stays that
way, it's kinda fun!!!

I guess my commissioning decree that I have hanging on my "I love me"
wall from the president of the United States and signed by the SECNAV
is just a mirage, or a fake then? I think you better get your facts
straight, here is some help coming from a (commisioned, there is no
other kind) Chief Warrant Officer in The US Navy...

In the Navy, you have to be at least a Chief (E7 or above) to even
apply. On the very moment you are commisioned (you go straight to
CW02, CWO3 if you are selected as an E9, there are no W.O's or even
W01's in the navy, you are a Chief Warrant Officer from day one ). We
have a permanant commission, not temporary. Most Line and Staff
Officers and LDO's have only a temporary commission, until they are
offered a permanant commission after being a LT for 2 years. So this
is at about the 6 year mark for them, and they are considered USNR
until they accept permanant commission and convert to USN.

One other big difference for us is that our selections and promotions
are only confirmed through the CNO. Other officer ranks are Senate
confirmed. Hope this helps a little to clear up any confusuion.


in theOn Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:17:23 GMT, "John R Weiss"
wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

The "C" in CWO is for "Chief", not "Commissioned".

True. Still, the CWO2 - CWO5 ranks are Commissioned.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:45:40 GMT, fudog50 wrote:

I read the original thread earlier and had a laff, it just goes to
show how little everyone knows about CWO's and I hope it stays that
way, it's kinda fun!!!

I guess my commissioning decree that I have hanging on my "I love me"
wall from the president of the United States and signed by the SECNAV
is just a mirage, or a fake then? I think you better get your facts
straight, here is some help coming from a (commisioned, there is no
other kind) Chief Warrant Officer in The US Navy...

Well, I'm always willing to get my facts straight. But, can you cut me
a bit of slack and acknowledge that what is current today has not
always been the way it was?

The terminology "Warrant Officer" refers to the fact that he/she holds
the rank by (traditionally) the issuance of a "warrant"--a government
document bestowing rank and authority to conduct certain actions. A
"commission" for a military officer was presidential and with the
authority of congress. A warrant did not require that level of
authorization. Things have obviously changed and I willingly defer to
more current knowledge.

In the Navy, you have to be at least a Chief (E7 or above) to even
apply. On the very moment you are commisioned (you go straight to
CW02, CWO3 if you are selected as an E9, there are no W.O's or even
W01's in the navy, you are a Chief Warrant Officer from day one ). We
have a permanant commission, not temporary. Most Line and Staff
Officers and LDO's have only a temporary commission, until they are
offered a permanant commission after being a LT for 2 years. So this
is at about the 6 year mark for them, and they are considered USNR
until they accept permanant commission and convert to USN.

Well, that's a bit garbled. But, you're on my ground here. Commissions
for officers are not "temporary"--there is no expiration date. They
are "regular" or "reserve", indicating the component to which your
commission applies. The regular component is governed by grade
limitation policies.

One other big difference for us is that our selections and promotions
are only confirmed through the CNO. Other officer ranks are Senate
confirmed. Hope this helps a little to clear up any confusuion.

That's the grade limitation issue.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

Do you find it a "hoot" that the Army also considers its senior warrnats to
be commissioned?


The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.

Personally, it all makes sense to me. By considering some warrants as
commissioned officers you increase their range of capabilities without any
real negative effect (IIRC when this program began a few years back there
was rumbling from some in the warranted community that it would result in
dire consequences--none of which seem to have come to be). Why shouldn't a
CWO be able to take a sworn statement from a troop as well as any other
commissioned officer? Why shouldn't a CWO be able to command his A-Team
(there is now a WO slot in every SF A-Team) or detachment with the full
authority and privaledges of his commissioned counterparts? The WO's remain
the same technical specilaists they always were--they now just enjoy a bit
more authority in some areas.

Brooks

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Do you find it a "hoot" that the Army also considers its senior warrnats to
be commissioned?

I would, if it's true.

Next thing you know, they'll be commissioning NCOs.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Do you find it a "hoot" that the Army also considers its senior warrnats
to
be commissioned?

I would, if it's true.

Well, it is true, as you would know by now if you bothered to read the other
posts in this thread.


Next thing you know, they'll be commissioning NCOs.

Why?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Next thing you know, they'll be commissioning NCOs.

Why?

Why not? If a warrant officer can be a commissioned officer, so can
Top.

I notice that they're calling him "sir" these days. That used to get
you 20 push-ups in the U.S. Army.

A commissioned non-commissioned officer! That would be army-think at
its finest.

But really no more foolish than a commissioned warrant officer--a
warrant, after all, being by definition something less than a
commission.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Next thing you know, they'll be commissioning NCOs.

Why?

Why not? If a warrant officer can be a commissioned officer, so can
Top.

Why?


I notice that they're calling him "sir" these days. That used to get
you 20 push-ups in the U.S. Army.

Where did you get *that* from?


A commissioned non-commissioned officer! That would be army-think at
its finest.

But really no more foolish than a commissioned warrant officer--a
warrant, after all, being by definition something less than a
commission.

Gee, I guess we should have frozen military development about forty years
ago, huh? Would that have made you happier?

Brooks


all the best -- Dan Ford

Cub Driver wrote:

Next thing you know, they'll be commissioning NCOs.

Why?

Why not? If a warrant officer can be a commissioned officer, so can
Top.

I notice that they're calling him "sir" these days. That used to get
you 20 push-ups in the U.S. Army.

A commissioned non-commissioned officer! That would be army-think at
its finest.

But really no more foolish than a commissioned warrant officer--a
warrant, after all, being by definition something less than a
commission.

Sometime in the late 1950s, the US services
created the enlisted "supergrades", E-8 and E-9
- specifically for the purpose of eventually
doing away with the Warrant Officer grade.

It took more than a dozen years, but the USAF
did exactly that. (They could hang in until
retirement... but zero new ones were created.)

BTW - in the Kaiserslautern (Germany) Military
Community (headed by the Brigadier running the
86th TFG at Ramstein), we had LOTS of Army types
in the many base housing areas.

There were three sections of base housing: enlisted,
senior NCOs, and officer. My neighbor across the
apartment hall (in senior NCO housing) was an Army
CWO - and we both had very similar training, duties,
and responsibilites in our respective fields.

- John T. former MSgt, USAF

Hey Dan,

Where are you coming from anyway? What is your point? You sound like
you are on some kinda high horse? Sorry if you don't agree that Chief
Warrant Officers should be commissioned and you think it is foolish,
but where are you coming from and why? Did a CWO **** in your wheaties
long ago? My personal view is that "Mustang" officers, (up through the
ranks, pal) overall make the best leaders, with the experience of
having been there and done that. And the upward transgression to more
responsibilty, authority and accountability (and consequently better
pay) is only logical. Your point about commissioning NCO's is silly,
we already do commission NCO's in every service, here is what
happens.....after they get commissioned, they are no longer NCO's,
(NCO stands for NON-commissioned Officer). A top can get a
commission, just as a Master Chief in the Navy can, but then they are
no longer enlisted, or senior NCO's. I don't get where you were going
with this. OBTW, yeah where did you get that "sir" thing for
enlisted? I don't know about the other services, but if you call any
kind of Chief in the Navy (E7-E9) sir, they will surely let you know
the score!

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:03:04 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


Next thing you know, they'll be commissioning NCOs.

Why?

Why not? If a warrant officer can be a commissioned officer, so can
Top.

I notice that they're calling him "sir" these days. That used to get
you 20 push-ups in the U.S. Army.

A commissioned non-commissioned officer! That would be army-think at
its finest.

But really no more foolish than a commissioned warrant officer--a
warrant, after all, being by definition something less than a
commission.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com