KJZI (Charleston Executive, S.C.) ILS RWY 9 DME Required

wrote:
On Mar 12, 5:21 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:


That's just simply not true. You say your willing to learn. Just read
the regulations already.


Thats your opinion Mark.


As in "just" his opinion, right?

It's his *considered* opinion based upon your *stated lack of
understanding* of the fundamentals of the purpose of MDA, the MAP, and
FAR 91.175 (c) (1) and (3) (i).

On Mar 12, 6:17*pm, Sam Spade wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 12, 5:21 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

That's just simply not true. You say your willing to learn. Just read
the regulations already.

Thats your opinion Mark.

As in "just" his opinion, right?

It's his *considered* opinion based upon your *stated lack of
understanding* of the fundamentals of the purpose of MDA, the MAP, and
FAR 91.175 (c) (1) and (3) (i).

I told you before, this is how I run my shop. I NEVER SAID IT WAS
ILLEGAL. So far, I have not hit anything below me by NOT descending
below MDA before the MAP. This is the way I was taught and if it
works for me, you can do whatever FARS says.

You do it your way, and I will do it my way. Zero zero takes offs are
perfectly legal.

Just because FARS says so doesn't mean it's safe!!!!!!!!!!!

" wrote
It's been describe to me as dive and drive. Dive down to MDA as soon
as you can, and drive it in at MDA to MAP. Go below it before MAP and
it's a bust for checkride.

That's because your instructor was "teaching the checkride"and on most
check rides, you always go-missed and are never allowed to land. In real
life your goal is to land---Right?

Either you or your instructor have (had) a serious teaching or
understanding problem. Not knowing either of you, I can't really say
where the problem is, but the two of you really need to get together
and work-out this misunderstanding.

However.... YOU really have not utilized the freely available instructional
material available on the net.

Bob Moore

wrote:
On Mar 12, 6:17 pm, Sam Spade wrote:

wrote:

On Mar 12, 5:21 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

That's just simply not true. You say your willing to learn. Just read
the regulations already.

Thats your opinion Mark.

As in "just" his opinion, right?

It's his *considered* opinion based upon your *stated lack of
understanding* of the fundamentals of the purpose of MDA, the MAP, and
FAR 91.175 (c) (1) and (3) (i).


I told you before, this is how I run my shop. I NEVER SAID IT WAS
ILLEGAL. So far, I have not hit anything below me by NOT descending
below MDA before the MAP. This is the way I was taught and if it
works for me, you can do whatever FARS says.

You do it your way, and I will do it my way. Zero zero takes offs are
perfectly legal.

Just because FARS says so doesn't mean it's safe!!!!!!!!!!!

What you said was:

"I was also told for checkride that I couldn't go below MDA
before MAP or it's a bust. (VOR alpha at KMBO is my most common non
precision approach) so that stuck out in my mind."

That is just plain wrong.

Further, if you insist on remaining at MDA until the MAP at a busy Class
D airport, the tower will get ****ed off to say the least, if other
aircraft have the required visual references to leave MDA in accordance
with the provisions of 91.175 so as to land straight in.

If I were giving you the oral for your instrument check ride or a
proficiency check and you told me that you couldn't leave MDA before the
MAP on the VOR-A at KBMO, my next question would be, "Is that always
true?" Unless you could explain the nuances of an IAP that has only
circling minimums, and when you can leave MDA and when you cannot, I
would send you home for some more study time or, preferably, serious
ground school.

As to "zero zero" take offs, that is begging the question. That is not
authorized by any FAR, it just isn't prohibited for Part 91 operations,
because there are no takeoff minimums for Part 91 only.

On Mar 12, 5:55*pm, Mark Hansen wrote:
On 3/12/2010 3:35 PM, wrote:

On Mar 12, 5:21 pm, Mark Hansen wrote:

That's just simply not true. You say your willing to learn. Just read
the regulations already.

Thats your opinion Mark.

What's my opinion?

READ what you said above. You said above that I am not willing to
learn. That is your opinion which sadly is wrong.

Now that it's been brought out I can descend below MDA before MAP,
fine and dandy, I have only stated what I was taught no matter how
incorrect it may have been. I was taught dive and drive to MDA and no
lower until missed.

I don't intend to start descending below MDA before MAP now just
because YOU and others say FARS says it's perfectly ok.. See my
response to Sam.

MDA at my airport KMBO is just above 500 AGL. I am not going to do a
circle to land below MDA before MAP even if I have the airport in
sight clear from the VOR.

On Mar 12, 6:48*pm, Sam Spade wrote:
wrote:

Further, if you insist on remaining at MDA until the MAP at a busy Class
D airport, the tower will get ****ed off to say the least, if other
aircraft have the required visual references to leave MDA in accordance
with the provisions of 91.175 so as to land straight in.

They can get ****ed all they want Sam. I am PIC, not the
tower.......

On Mar 12, 6:43*pm, Robert Moore wrote:

That's because your instructor was "teaching the checkride"and on most
check rides, you always go-missed and are never allowed to land. In real
life your goal is to land---Right?

And probably is where the problem of confusion ON ME. Since I am
based at an uncontrolled airport KMBO, Every practice approach was
done with missed so it was ingrained never go below MDA until the
MAP.

On my checkride, with the equipment I had at the time, I was only good
for ILS, LOC and DME type approaches (I didn't have ADF or GPS)

When I was taught LOC approaches at KHKS, I was told to go to MDA and
drive it in at 760 until I saw the airport which he had me pop the
hood at the MAP which happens to be at the middle marker.

Either you or your instructor have (had) a serious teaching or
understanding problem. Not knowing either of you, I can't really say
where the problem is, but the two of you really need to get together
and work-out this misunderstanding.

Unfortunately even if I wanted to, he has gone on to the airlines..

Like I told Sam and Mark, while it's good to know I can indeed descend
below MDA before MAP, I am not going to. Especially at my airport
where it's a circle to land and I just don't feel safe having to make
turns 300 feet AGL to land.

On Mar 12, 1:42*pm, Sam Spade wrote:

This is what I was taught for what it's worth.

Not worth much, sadly.

Sadly to you but worthy enough for me. I haven't hit anything below
me by being taught to err on the side of being higher have I?

I still get in on minimums with my method, so call what you want Sam,
but real world works for me. And altitude is my friend in the full
scheme of things.

On Mar 12, 7:03*pm, " wrote:
On Mar 12, 6:43*pm, Robert Moore wrote:

That's because your instructor was "teaching the checkride"and on most
check rides, you always go-missed and are never allowed to land. In real
life your goal is to land---Right?

And probably is where the problem of confusion ON ME. *Since I am
based at an uncontrolled airport KMBO, Every practice approach was
done with missed so it was ingrained never go below MDA until the
MAP.

On my checkride, with the equipment I had at the time, I was only good
for ILS, LOC and DME type approaches (I didn't have ADF or GPS)

When I was taught LOC approaches at KHKS, I was told to go to MDA and
drive it in at 760 until I saw the airport which he had me pop the
hood at the MAP which happens to be at the middle marker.

Either you or your instructor have (had) a serious teaching or
understanding problem. Not knowing either of you, I can't really say
where the problem is, but the two of you really need to get together
and work-out this misunderstanding.

Unfortunately even if I wanted to, he has gone on to the airlines..

Like I told Sam and Mark, while it's good to know I can indeed descend
below MDA before MAP, I am not going to. *Especially at my airport
where it's a circle to land and I just don't feel safe having to make
turns 300 feet AGL to land.

Should add for clarity before Mark and Sam get on their high horse, so
we didn't bog down KJAN traffic, we used my VFR GPS in lieu of an ADF
to work around the ADF required to identify BRENZ so I could get ILS
and LOC experience.

On my checkride, I did my approaches at KJAN (ILS, BC before
decommissioning and LOC) since I didn't have ADF to legally conduct
approaches at KHKS.

On 3/12/2010 4:49 PM, wrote:
I don't intend to start descending below MDA before MAP now just
because YOU and others say FARS says it's perfectly ok.. See my
response to Sam.

You don't *have* to descend before reaching MAP. Your statement that
it was not allowed was wrong.