"Vanishing American Air Superiority"

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.
My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.
That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.
Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.
That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, anyway he had a great job in
RCAF, as a "de-briefer". What that entailed was a bit complicated.
When RCAF personel returned from overseas he was allowed 1 week
to de-brief and calm them down enough to return them to civilian life.
He had to 'pump' them for information which I imagine a lot of men
were reluctant to relate, using cigarettes, booze and girls to get
them
chatty.
Funny he was highly qualified, before the war he was a gangster,
had a speak-easy in Winnipeg, and hustled booze and fish to
Chicago's Moran gang mainly, you know how kids are.

After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.
He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only
person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we
built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but
he was always careful about what he said.
It was the analysis ability that he sifted for circulation that I
found
interesting.

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.
Have you considered reading a book?

Which book did you read?

Willie read the Talmud.. You know the book that gives people like Willie
the right to be superior to Gentiles.


The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
Aren't we forgetting someone?
This being a naval group and all...

The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor, suppose the
Nazi's
float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff
would've put
a lot of iron in the channel.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.

Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night?
(please don't tell me I need to prove math).

William Black

Regards
Ken

It is pretty obvious that Israel could use Willies military strategies
to help finish the slaughter in Gaza.

Alexander wrote:

Willie read the Talmud.. You know the book that gives people like Willie
the right to be superior to Gentiles.


It's very hard not to to feel superior to you.


--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.
My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.
That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.
Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.
That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, a

Why am I not surprised...

It's not an acronym, it's a code word.


After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.

Oh no they won't be.

He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only
person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we
built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but
he was always careful about what he said.

Nobody except the heads of state and the joint chiefs committee had
access to everything.

Many commanders in chief weren't given ULTRA access.

Have you considered reading a book?

Which book did you read?

Start with Churchill.


The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
Aren't we forgetting someone?
This being a naval group and all...

The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor,

Recall Taranto and Cape Matapan...

suppose the
Nazi's
float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff
would've put
a lot of iron in the channel.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.

And so easy to sink, especially at night.

Now look up how good the Germans were at sinking ships with bombs at
that date.


Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night?
(please don't tell me I need to prove math).

You don't know what the Military Canal is do you?


--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.

On Mar 20, 10:21 am, William Black
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.
My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA.
That's about a dozen people below general officer rank.
Shouldn't be too hard to identify him.
That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.

Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, a

Why am I not surprised...
It's not an acronym, it's a code word.

Well I missed that memo.

After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing
cabinet, probably still classified.

Oh no they won't be.

In canuckistan it's secret or once declassified it's burned, didn't
you
get the memo.

He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only
person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we
built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but
he was always careful about what he said.

Nobody except the heads of state and the joint chiefs committee had
access to everything.
Many commanders in chief weren't given ULTRA access.

Old Boy told me he was a corporal, he was ordered to de-brief RCAF
personel, and I presume said personel were ordered to provide full
cooperation, so he wouldn't need to give a rat's ass about ULTRA,
except how effective it was, to feedback into the chain of command,
his duties in that respect were more than clerical.
RCAF trained him for a year in Pathfinder Navigation prior to making
him a de-briefer, and navigation involves a lot of secret stuff, so he
likely ended up knowing more about ULTRA than ULTRA did, where
results are concerned, and then write a synopsis for strategists,
based on de-briefing from fielded and experienced personel.

Have you considered reading a book?

Which book did you read?

Start with Churchill.

Ya think a politician is unbiased do you?

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
Aren't we forgetting someone?
This being a naval group and all...

The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor,

Recall Taranto and Cape Matapan...

suppose the

Nazi's
float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff
would've put
a lot of iron in the channel.
Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty.

And so easy to sink, especially at night.

But look at what you're risking, to sink a cheap barge.

Now look up how good the Germans were at sinking ships with bombs at
that date.

As good or better than anyone.

Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the
Military Canal in a night?

40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night?
(please don't tell me I need to prove math).

You don't know what the Military Canal is do you?
Mr. Black

Well we had lakefront property on Lk Ontario, the Englosh Channel is
what
the girls liked to swim across too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Bell
Is that what you mean?
Ken

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.


Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.

Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and
2 armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large
Italian army that invaded Egypt


Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen cruisers
5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns
at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.


Keith

On Mar 18, 3:31*am, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...



On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.

Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and
2 armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large
Italian army that invaded Egypt

Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen cruisers
5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns
at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.

Keith

What is ever more astounding is looking at photographs of Heer
manhandling German tanks out of the barges with planks and wood. Talk
about a turkey shoot on a beach head. Even assuming the barges would
survive the Channel chop.

The German Navy at this point in time was useless except for the U
Boat arm, and that would have been useless in an invasion.

Keith Willshaw wrote:


"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.


Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.

Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and
2 armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large
Italian army that invaded Egypt


Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.

There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen cruisers
5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns
at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.

All sunk of course. Checkmate. Do you really take the German general
staff as being amateurs at warfare? That has long been Englands
downfall. Underestimating others and overestimating themselves.


Keith

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:23:18 -0500, Don Ocean wrote:

Keith Willshaw wrote:


"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
,
Ken S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.

In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard
it's still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of
"some clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook
but took the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who had
more access to info than any historian will ever get, and explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok. But
I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.


Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.

Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and 2
armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large Italian
army that invaded Egypt


Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or 11
pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's. As I
said, no sweat.

There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen
cruisers 5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking
turns at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.

All sunk of course. Checkmate. Do you really take the German general
staff as being amateurs at warfare? That has long been Englands
downfall. Underestimating others and overestimating themselves.

Actually, for all their posturing, press releases, and post-war finger pointing
that they were the Jedi Knights and that they only lost because of the Dead Guy
That Nobody Liked, the German General Staff was pretty poor.
(Let's see - 2 World Wars, 2 losses.)
The never, ever got a handle on the idea of logistics.
Coupling this with a grasp of Industrial Economy that was below that of
Lemurs, and the overweening arrogance that was taught to them from their
first Staff School on up - I don't think it was the Brits underestimating.
There's a reason why the Germans fought in short campaigns followed by extended
periods of quiescence. They did not ever have the industrial capacity, either in manufacturing,
or, more importantly, raw materials, to make up losses while the fighting was going on.
As soon as you take on opponents that won't kindly allow you a rest - The Soviet Union, the US, and, to a lesser
extent, the British Empire, you were guaranteed to lose.
(Some of their uniforms were kinda spiffy, though)

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

Peter Stickney wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:23:18 -0500, Don Ocean wrote:

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
,
Ken S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.
In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard
it's still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of
"some clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook
but took the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.
I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who had
more access to info than any historian will ever get, and explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok. But
I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.


Britain was not at war with Croatia.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and 2
armoured brigades deployed for home defense.

Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large Italian
army that invaded Egypt


Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or 11
pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's. As I
said, no sweat.
There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen
cruisers 5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking
turns at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.
All sunk of course. Checkmate. Do you really take the German general
staff as being amateurs at warfare? That has long been Englands
downfall. Underestimating others and overestimating themselves.

Actually, for all their posturing, press releases, and post-war finger pointing
that they were the Jedi Knights and that they only lost because of the Dead Guy
That Nobody Liked, the German General Staff was pretty poor.
(Let's see - 2 World Wars, 2 losses.)
The never, ever got a handle on the idea of logistics.
Coupling this with a grasp of Industrial Economy that was below that of
Lemurs, and the overweening arrogance that was taught to them from their
first Staff School on up - I don't think it was the Brits underestimating.
There's a reason why the Germans fought in short campaigns followed by extended
periods of quiescence. They did not ever have the industrial capacity, either in manufacturing,
or, more importantly, raw materials, to make up losses while the fighting was going on.
As soon as you take on opponents that won't kindly allow you a rest - The Soviet Union, the US, and, to a lesser
extent, the British Empire, you were guaranteed to lose.
(Some of their uniforms were kinda spiffy, though)

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

There you go again. Overestimating your capabilities and underestimating
the competition. You are a fool. IUt was fools that ridded Merry auld
England of her Empire.

"Don Ocean" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:



There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen
cruisers
5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns
at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow
walking pace. Oops.

All sunk of course.

Hand waving wont achieve that.

Checkmate. Do you really take the German general staff as being amateurs
at warfare?

The Kriegsmarine staff had no illusions about the chances of
success of any invasion. Admiral Raeder argued strongly that
any such invasion would be a costly failure.

This opinion was reinforced by the landing exercise carried
out off Boulogne by 50 barges in broad daylight. After travelling
less than a mile they were to run into the beach.

In ideal weather one barge capsized and sank, another lost its tow
and drifted out to sea, several managed to beach broadside on
to the waves making landing very hazardous. The barges were
very widely dispersed with many landing hundreds of metres
from their intended point

Only 50% of the troops managed to get out of the barges
and on to the beach in the hour allocated and 10% never got to
shore at all.

Now factoring in a 30 hour crossing instead of 1 hour , night time and
the tidal race in mid channel I think they'd have taken 20% casualties
without the British firing and the remainder would have been
scattered along the coast of Kent and East Sussex

That has long been Englands downfall. Underestimating others and
overestimating themselves.

The Luftwaffe confidently assured the Fuhrer that they could achieve
air superiority, they failed badly. Who underestimated whom I wonder.

Keith