"Vanishing American Air Superiority"

Dan wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 18, 1:32 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.
That's one of maybe a dozen people, then. Why not just tell us his name?

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.
Croats? Whiskey tango foxtrot, interrogative?

We certainly had a big deception plan going in Kent... in 1944 to create
FUSAG and keep the Germans waiting in the Pas de Calais.

As far as artillery went, *immediately* after Dunkirk - on 8 June - we
had about 400 tanks, 420 field guns and 163 medium and heavy guns
*immediately* available for use. We had fifteen infantry and one
armoured division in being.

Through June, the Navy brought back to the UK about another 200,000
troops, and some of their artillery and vehicles. (Common myth - Dunkirk
was by no means the end of the fighting in France)

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
About 70,000 after the Army's needs had been met.

Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
Move out at 10pm in your three-knot barges, and by 5am you're not even
half-way across the Channel.

You have, however, met and felt the fire of the Auxiliary Patrol, and by
this point you're seeing destroyers by the dozen... and none of them
German.

I think you need to re-examine the credentials of your Old Boy. He
wasn't related to Baron Castleshortt VC, was he?
Paul

You have the benefit of wearing rose colored glasses, but be careful,
you may end up paying for "easy" wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and ...
OTOH, it's good to have realistic hard cold logical analysis.
Ken

When you locate a source for "hard, cold, logical analysis" feel free
to get back to us.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Doubtful that you would understand such.

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 18, 1:32 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me.
That's one of maybe a dozen people, then. Why not just tell us his name?

But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.
Croats? Whiskey tango foxtrot, interrogative?

We certainly had a big deception plan going in Kent... in 1944 to create
FUSAG and keep the Germans waiting in the Pas de Calais.

As far as artillery went, *immediately* after Dunkirk - on 8 June - we
had about 400 tanks, 420 field guns and 163 medium and heavy guns
*immediately* available for use. We had fifteen infantry and one
armoured division in being.

Through June, the Navy brought back to the UK about another 200,000
troops, and some of their artillery and vehicles. (Common myth - Dunkirk
was by no means the end of the fighting in France)

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
About 70,000 after the Army's needs had been met.

Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
Move out at 10pm in your three-knot barges, and by 5am you're not even
half-way across the Channel.

You have, however, met and felt the fire of the Auxiliary Patrol, and by
this point you're seeing destroyers by the dozen... and none of them
German.

I think you need to re-examine the credentials of your Old Boy. He
wasn't related to Baron Castleshortt VC, was he?
Paul

You have the benefit of wearing rose colored glasses, but be careful,
you may end up paying for "easy" wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and ...
OTOH, it's good to have realistic hard cold logical analysis.
Ken

Iraq was a massive fools mistake. Afghanistan should have stayed a
standoff war.

Ken S. Tucker wrote:

You have the benefit of wearing rose colored glasses, but be careful,
you may end up paying for "easy" wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and ...
OTOH, it's good to have realistic hard cold logical analysis.
Ken

I don't ever remember anyone saying that Afghanistan would be easy.


--
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in
:

I think you need to re-examine the credentials of your Old Boy. He
wasn't related to Baron Castleshortt VC, was he?

A name of which we do not see enough on Newsnet. In the past on
rec.heraldry he has been a source of endless mirth.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:36:26 -0500, Andrew Chaplin
wrote:

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in
:

I think you need to re-examine the credentials of your Old Boy. He
wasn't related to Baron Castleshortt VC, was he?

A name of which we do not see enough on Newsnet. In the past on
rec.heraldry he has been a source of endless mirth.

He rates his own Wikki article, it's a little amusing. (under
James Shortt)


Peter Skelton

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.
In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
But what ****un good is the that Island to Hitlers greater scheme,
nothing, but we know now he made a strategic military error, and
as Chruchill promised his bombers burned the black heart of Germany,
that was very unpleasant to all who were involved.
I request a polite response, as I gave.
Ken

You mean all those B17's, B24's, B25's, B26's etc were all Churchill's?
Don't forget the B29's. I have a few magazine clips showing thousands of
Aircraft at a time flying over Germany. And with US Markings. Some how I
do believe it was a Joint operation. I do wonder where all that avgas
came from?

Alexander wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
, Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.
In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
But what ****un good is the that Island to Hitlers greater scheme,
nothing, but we know now he made a strategic military error, and
as Chruchill promised his bombers burned the black heart of Germany,
that was very unpleasant to all who were involved.
I request a polite response, as I gave.
Ken

You mean all those B17's, B24's, B25's, B26's etc were all Churchill's?
Don't forget the B29's. I have a few magazine clips showing thousands of
Aircraft at a time flying over Germany. And with US Markings. Some how I
do believe it was a Joint operation. I do wonder where all that avgas
came from?

Not very good at history, are you? Dunkirk evacuation was 24 May - 4
June 1940. The U.S. aircraft you mention didn't get to the UK until 1942
and B-29 never operated from there. The Brits had been striking the
Nazis for some time before the U.S. got there. As for your "magazine
clips" do try to think for a bit, the U.S. flew in daylight, the UK flew
at night. It was hard to photograph aircraft at night.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan wrote:
Alexander wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:
In message
,
Ken
S. Tucker writes

I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat.
In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five
days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California,
commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace,
race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare
victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and
seventy for "recreational services"?)

I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's
still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some
clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took
the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well.

I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who
had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and
explained
it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok.
But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons
after
Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all
the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the
croats
figured it was real.

The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3.
Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or
11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's.
As I said, no sweat.
But what ****un good is the that Island to Hitlers greater scheme,
nothing, but we know now he made a strategic military error, and
as Chruchill promised his bombers burned the black heart of Germany,
that was very unpleasant to all who were involved.
I request a polite response, as I gave.
Ken

You mean all those B17's, B24's, B25's, B26's etc were all Churchill's?
Don't forget the B29's. I have a few magazine clips showing thousands
of Aircraft at a time flying over Germany. And with US Markings. Some
how I do believe it was a Joint operation. I do wonder where all that
avgas came from?

Not very good at history, are you? Dunkirk evacuation was 24 May - 4
June 1940. The U.S. aircraft you mention didn't get to the UK until 1942
and B-29 never operated from there. The Brits had been striking the
Nazis for some time before the U.S. got there. As for your "magazine
clips" do try to think for a bit, the U.S. flew in daylight, the UK flew
at night. It was hard to photograph aircraft at night.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The US Army Airforce flew all flights both day and night for quite some
time. My comments regarding air flights were not too wrong as we
furnished both pilots and planes prior to Dunkirk. Congress passed a
special law allowing combat pilots to leave American soil and join the
RAF without losing American citizenship. Many Pilots went to Canada and
transferred to England from there. Pappy Boyington(US Marine) flew for
General Chenault under Chiang kchek(sic) as one example. As for the
Daylight vs Night flights..that setup was some time later. Check the
archives of the 5th Army Airforce.

"Alexander" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:

The US Army Airforce flew all flights both day and night for quite some
time.

That'll come as news to the RAF

My comments regarding air flights were not too wrong as we furnished both
pilots and planes prior to Dunkirk.

The British were required to pay for any aircraft they received
at this time in gold. The aircraft were shipped to Canada
and sent over the border from there. With the exception of the
F4 Wildcat the American fighters were regarded as second rate
and relegated to the ground attack role.


Congress passed a special law allowing combat pilots to leave American
soil and join the RAF without losing American citizenship.

Feel free to provide proof for this assertion.

Many Pilots went to Canada and
transferred to England from there. Pappy Boyington(US Marine) flew for
General Chenault under Chiang kchek(sic) as one example.

A little confused as to geography as well as history I see.

Chiang Kai Shek was the leader of CHINA and Boyington
flew in CHINA not Britain.


As for the Daylight vs Night flights..that setup was some time later.
Check the archives of the 5th Army Airforce.


The 5th Airforce operated in the Phillipines, Australia and the south
pacific.
You really are confused aren't you.

Keith