Pre Takeoff Checklists

On Mar 23, 12:47*pm, Andy wrote:
On Mar 23, 7:20*am, Tony wrote:

Seems to me that it's been a while since we had a good brouhaha over
pretakeoff checklists. *Most of use use either ABBCCCDDE (or is it
AABBCCDDE? Or ABBBCCCCDDEEFG?) or CBSIFTCB or some other variant. *I'm
curious what you use and WHY? *What have you added or subtracted to
the "base" checklist to fit your specific glider or operation, or to
prevent problems you have encountered.

I personally use CBSIFTCB *in all the gliders I fly. After that is
complete I'm OK hooking up the rope, then I review WET (Wind,
Emergency, Traffic) and give the signal to launch.

CBSIFTCB E with Flaps always reponded to even if the response is
NONE. *Wind is not on my checklist, nor is checking to see if I put my
pants (trousers) and shoes on. *How could anyone sitting in a cockpit
waiting to takeoff be unaware of the wind?

The Emergency add on seems to have been replaced in UK by
Eventualities. *That observation based on a recent visit to the UK
club where I did my early glider training. Don't know why it changed
but the review of E's doesn't change.

Some people responding here seem to be confusing a pre-takeoff check
list with a flight preparation checklist. I have a pre-pushout
checklist for all the things that would impact my flight if I forgot
them, but that is completely separate from the memorized pre-takeoff
checks. It's before I push out that I check I have my pants on.
(Actually that's not as silly as it sounds - I often prepare for
flying in shorts but prefer to fly in long pants).

Some people like to cite what airline pilots do, thinking they prepare
for takeoff by going though a checklist. *They don't. *Normally they
do all the preparation and configuration by memory using standard
flows and, after it is all done, then they run the checklist. *Also,
the most critical emergency procedures have to be memorized and
executed without a checklist, then the checklist is used to "check" if
time allows.

Andy

I am not blissfully unaware of the wind as I arrive at the gliderport
and pull the glider to the runway, but I do like to take the few
seconds to take a glance at the wind sock or yaw string and just
refresh myself on what the wind situation is going to be like for that
particular takeoff.

You've hit on the key difference between a Checklist and a Do-list.
Your description of an airline cockpit is an example of a real
checklist where a task was performed and the list was used to verify
that it was performed. What most of us use in the glider is a Do-list
where we recite the item to be completed and then perform the task.

I think if your pretakeoff checklist is so long that it can't be
memorized then perhaps some of your "pretakeoff" items need to be
moved off the runway. I'm not convinced that sitting on the runway
with the towplane running, ground crew running around, and who knows
what is happening with other traffic in the air, is the best time to
be heads down going through a lengthy printed checklist. The runway
time should be reserved for the "Killer Items". Anything else should
be done before you stage. So, as I asked a few posts ago, what are
the killer items? I use the logic stream that if I forget to do it
then something bad will or can happen. So I check controls to make
sure that nothing is impeding their movement. If i'm flying a glider
with removable ballast I make sure it is removed (for fat me), I make
sure I'm strapped in so i don't go for Mr. Toads Wild Ride, set the
altimeter so that *at a glance* I can determine my altitude AGL, set
flaps and trim so that once i get in the air I know what to expect
from the glider, shut the canopy and LOCK it so that it doesnt blow
off, and check the airbrakes and LOCK them so that bad things dont
happen.

I don't have "hook up the rope" on my before takeoff checklist because
if I forget to hook up the rope, nothing bad will happen except the
towplane will takeoff and ill stay on the runway and people will look
at us funny.

Thats just me though, I'm curious what the rest of RAS thinks.
enjoying the conversation so far!

To some extent this discussion boils down to semantics and what glider
you're flying. I could subscribe to calling what you check immediately
before takeoff a "killer list" rather than a pre-takeoff checklist.
After all, these are the last items to be checked before bad things
that can happen suddenly might occur. But what should be on the killer
list? It depends.

If I'm about to fly a club ship that's flown for the last few hours, I
want to make sure it's configured for me and that important
instruments, controls, locking mechanisms and pilot attitude are ready
for flight. Ballast, altimeter, contols, dive brakes, canopy, tail
dolly, and emegency prodedures are on this list. However, my club
encourages the use of a short written checklist which is in the side
pocket, which covers more items than are on the killer list, and I run
thorugh this as I'm waiting for the towplane. I also run through my
ABCCCDDDE memorized list just before I give a thumbs up to the wing
runner, primarily to insure everything was checked and that my head is
ready for flight.

If I'm about to fly my own ship, then I've put in a hour or so of time
rigging, checking, loading and configuring. I've done a critical
assembly check, a positive control check, I've taped the wings,
winglets and tail, I've checked the tire pressure, made sure the
electrical system is functional and that all electrical instruments
are loaded with the correct nav or communication data and functional.
I've put my hat, sunglasses, wallet, phone and food in the side
pocket, and stored the Camelbak in its place. I've talked to the field
manager, gotten a place on the flight line, aligned the plane to the
runway and removed the tail dolly. I turn on the electrical system,
turn on the radio and set it to the field frequency, put the
transponder on standby, turn on the SN10, clear the Volkslogger memory
and turn off its warnings, and set the altimeter to field height. At
this point I run through the LS written checklist on bottom of the
instrument cluster. Then I struggle into the chute, get into the
plane, wiggle until I can reach and fasten the harness belts and
thread the Camelbak hose into position, and put the mike into
position. As the towplane taxis up I do a radio check and request a
tow height. The canopy comes down and is locked, and I inspect the tow
rope condition where it attaches to the Tost rings before I allow hook-
up. At this point the killer items are contols, dive brakes, canopy,
and emegency prodedures. However, I run through my ABCCCDDDE memorized
list to make absolutely sure all important items were checked and that
my head is in the right place for possible trouble just before I give
a thumbs up to the wing runner.

It's possible to pare down the pre-takeoff checklist, or to change to
one that's universal. But what real advantage would this bring? The
two pre-flight checklists commonly used both contain all the killer
items that should absolutely be checked just before flight. And with
repeated use, each checklist has a rhythm that will cause a pilot to
stop if something is missed or out of place. I don't think it really
matters what exactly is on each pilots checklist, so long as it
contains the same items on each and every flight.

-John

On Mar 23, 2:54 pm, Tony wrote:
I think if your pretakeoff checklist is so long that it can't be
memorized then perhaps some of your "pretakeoff" items need to be
moved off the runway. I'm not convinced that sitting on the runway
with the towplane running, ground crew running around, and who knows
what is happening with other traffic in the air, is the best time to
be heads down going through a lengthy printed checklist. The runway
time should be reserved for the "Killer Items". Anything else should
be done before you stage. So, as I asked a few posts ago, what are
the killer items? I use the logic stream that if I forget to do it
then something bad will or can happen. So I check controls to make
sure that nothing is impeding their movement. If i'm flying a glider
with removable ballast I make sure it is removed (for fat me), I make
sure I'm strapped in so i don't go for Mr. Toads Wild Ride, set the
altimeter so that *at a glance* I can determine my altitude AGL, set
flaps and trim so that once i get in the air I know what to expect
from the glider, shut the canopy and LOCK it so that it doesnt blow
off, and check the airbrakes and LOCK them so that bad things dont
happen.

On Mar 23, 4:09*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
To some extent this discussion boils down to semantics and what glider
you're flying. I could subscribe to calling what you check immediately
before takeoff a "killer list" rather than a pre-takeoff checklist.
After all, these are the last items to be checked before bad things
that can happen suddenly might occur. But what should be on the killer
list? It depends.

If I'm about to fly a club ship that's flown for the last few hours, I
want to make sure it's configured for me and that important
instruments, controls, locking mechanisms and pilot attitude are ready
for flight. Ballast, altimeter, contols, dive brakes, canopy, tail
dolly, and emegency prodedures are on this list. However, my club
encourages the use of a short written checklist which is in the side
pocket, which covers more items than are on the killer list, and I run
thorugh this as I'm waiting for the towplane. I also run through my
ABCCCDDDE memorized list just before I give a thumbs up to the wing
runner, primarily to insure everything was checked and that my head is
ready for flight.

If I'm about to fly my own ship, then I've put in a hour or so of time
rigging, checking, loading and configuring. I've done a critical
assembly check, a positive control check, I've taped the wings,
winglets and tail, I've checked the tire pressure, made sure the
electrical system is functional and that all electrical instruments
are loaded with the correct nav or communication data and functional.
I've put my hat, sunglasses, wallet, phone and food in the side
pocket, and stored the Camelbak in its place. I've talked to the field
manager, gotten a place on the flight line, aligned the plane to the
runway and removed the tail dolly. I turn on the electrical system,
turn on the radio and set it to the field frequency, put the
transponder on standby, turn on the SN10, clear the Volkslogger memory
and turn off its warnings, and set the altimeter to field height. At
this point I run through the LS written checklist on bottom of the
instrument cluster. Then I struggle into the chute, get into the
plane, wiggle until I can reach and fasten the harness belts and
thread the Camelbak hose into position, and put the mike into
position. As the towplane taxis up I do a radio check and request a
tow height. The canopy comes down and is locked, and I inspect the tow
rope condition where it attaches to the Tost rings before I allow hook-
up. At this point the killer items are contols, dive brakes, canopy,
and emegency prodedures. However, I run through my ABCCCDDDE memorized
list to make absolutely sure all important items were checked and that
my head is in the right place for possible trouble just before I give
a thumbs up to the wing runner.

It's possible to pare down the pre-takeoff checklist, or to change to
one that's universal. But what real advantage would this bring? The
two pre-flight checklists commonly used both contain all the killer
items that should absolutely be checked just before flight. And with
repeated use, each checklist has a rhythm that will cause a pilot to
stop if something is missed or out of place. I don't think it really
matters what exactly is on each pilots checklist, so long as it
contains the same items on each and every flight.


John -

very nice reply and i agree wholeheartedly!

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:54:23 -0700, Tony wrote:

I am not blissfully unaware of the wind as I arrive at the gliderport
and pull the glider to the runway, but I do like to take the few
seconds to take a glance at the wind sock or yaw string and just
refresh myself on what the wind situation is going to be like for that
particular takeoff.

This is part of the Eventualities in CBSIFTCBE as currently required in
the UK, especially in its winching form. It has several parts. All take
the form of decisions spoken aloud if there's anybody else on board and
mentally if you're flying solo. This makes sure that these decisions are
all fresh in your mind at launch. Decide:

1) that you'll pull off if your wing drops at the start of the launch.
2) your approach speed in case of launch failure.
This is wind dependent, so look at the sock, trees, grass, etc.
3) that if possible you'll land ahead from a launch failure.
4) which way you'll turn if you are too high to land ahead.
This is always downwind and requires a look at the sock.

The same works for aero tow with slight mods.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

When I checked out in the RF-4C my instructor told me to start on the
left and go down the left console across the instrument panel, then
down the right console putting everything where I wanted it for that
flight. I do that today, Radio on, volume up, squelch set, frequency
set.....SN-10 on volume set, alt set, MC set, etc.

Before takeoff I use altimeter, belts, controls, communication (with
tow pilot), cable, canopy, direction (wind), e (emergency). ABCCCCDE

For landing I use wheel, wind, water, traffic, flaps (&/or spoilers),
radio (call entering pattern) WWW.TFR

I'm surprised I'm the only one to mention com-check with tow pilot and
radio call entering the pattern, or don't some believe this is a
killer item? Four pilots in region 11 would strongly disagree if they
were still with us.
JJ


Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:54:23 -0700, Tony wrote:

I am not blissfully unaware of the wind as I arrive at the gliderport
and pull the glider to the runway, but I do like to take the few
seconds to take a glance at the wind sock or yaw string and just
refresh myself on what the wind situation is going to be like for that
particular takeoff.

This is part of the Eventualities in CBSIFTCBE as currently required in
the UK, especially in its winching form. It has several parts. All take
the form of decisions spoken aloud if there's anybody else on board and
mentally if you're flying solo. This makes sure that these decisions are
all fresh in your mind at launch. Decide:

1) that you'll pull off if your wing drops at the start of the launch.
2) your approach speed in case of launch failure.
This is wind dependent, so look at the sock, trees, grass, etc.
3) that if possible you'll land ahead from a launch failure.
4) which way you'll turn if you are too high to land ahead.
This is always downwind and requires a look at the sock.

The same works for aero tow with slight mods.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |