Pre Takeoff Checklists

On Mar 23, 11:55*pm, wrote:
On Mar 23, 1:07*pm, Dave White wrote:

*Adding things like "look"

and "land" just garbages them up.

LOOK outside for traffic in the pattern
LANDing area clear of obstructions

I'd place these in the "killer items" list not the "garbage"

Aw come on... I don't believe for a moment that any pilot needs that
on a checklist.

The hazard that does claim lives that might be worthy of "lookout" is
traffic coming in from *other* than the normal traffic pattern.
"Tunnel vision" is easily acquired, shed only through effort and
discipline.

Dave White: like your approach.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Mar 24, 7:14*am, T8 wrote:

Aw come on... I don't believe for a moment that any pilot needs that
on a checklist.



Than you haven't spent much time in the back seat teaching new pilots
or reviewing experienced ones. Glad we don't have to worry about you!

MM

On Mar 24, 10:10*am, wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:14*am, T8 wrote:

Aw come on... I don't believe for a moment that any pilot needs that
on a checklist.

Than you haven't spent much time in the back seat teaching new pilots
or reviewing experienced ones. *Glad we don't have to worry about you!

MM

Still not buyin'. Clearing the airspace (or groundspace) you intend
to occupy in the next 60 seconds or so is a continuous requirement for
safety. If that isn't being done automatically and continuously, I
don't see how a checklist item is going to help. You are right: I'm
not an instructor. Presuming that you are, please accept my thanks
for doing the job!

-T8

On Mar 24, 8:50*am, T8 wrote:
On Mar 24, 10:10*am, wrote:

On Mar 24, 7:14*am, T8 wrote:

Aw come on... I don't believe for a moment that any pilot needs that
on a checklist.

Than you haven't spent much time in the back seat teaching new pilots
or reviewing experienced ones. *Glad we don't have to worry about you!

MM

Still not buyin'. *Clearing the airspace (or groundspace) you intend
to occupy in the next 60 seconds or so is a continuous requirement for
safety. *If that isn't being done automatically and continuously, I
don't see how a checklist item is going to help. *You are right: I'm
not an instructor. *Presuming that you are, please accept my thanks
for doing the job!

-T8




It's about intentionally redirecting ones focus of attention. Some
people actually need help thinking about this.

LANDing area also includes having an alternate, both during off-
airport and on-airport landings.

On Mar 24, 11:17*am, wrote:

It's about intentionally redirecting ones focus of attention. *Some
people actually need help thinking about this.

I get that, I agree. My objection is that if a checklist item is
necessary to make this happen at pattern & landing time, then the
lookout discipline during other phases of flight is probably lacking.
Intentional redirection of attention away from front/center needs to
be happening continuously.

LANDing area also includes having an alternate, both during off-
airport and on-airport landings.

I like that.

-T8

On Mar 24, 9:51*am, T8 wrote:
*My objection is that if a checklist item is
necessary to make this happen at pattern & landing time, then the
lookout discipline during other phases of flight is probably lacking.
Intentional redirection of attention away from front/center needs to
be happening continuously.


Yup. Objection sustained. Remember though, that under stress or
overload the human brain tends to diminish in it's ability to handle
complex tasks. Instructors try to impart techniques that will keep
people from getting killed when they are functioning at a primitive
level. You'd be surprised how often very smart people do very dumb
things. Experience shows that it's better to expect errors and have a
plan to catch them then to expect people to do what they are supposed
to do.

On Mar 24, 7:14*am, T8 wrote:
On Mar 23, 11:55*pm, wrote:

On Mar 23, 1:07*pm, Dave White wrote:

*Adding things like "look"

and "land" just garbages them up.

LOOK outside for traffic in the pattern
LANDing area clear of obstructions

I'd place these in the "killer items" list not the "garbage"

Aw come on... I don't believe for a moment that any pilot needs that
on a checklist.

The hazard that does claim lives that might be worthy of "lookout" is
traffic coming in from *other* than the normal traffic pattern.
"Tunnel vision" is easily acquired, shed only through effort and
discipline.

Dave White: like your approach.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...28X53127&key=1

Many sites have differing patterns for power and gliders. I've flown
from sites that have patterns for gliders, light power, and heavy
power with multiple entries and altitudes. My club glider port has
opposite power and glider patterns, north and east for power, south
and west for gliders.

Frank Whiteley