New Nationwide Squawk Code

On 4/4/2010 11:21 AM, Scott wrote:


Maybe this will help explain the 120 Knot limit. Read through the whole
page and you will see it applies to gliders as well as powered aircraft.
http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/fina..._synopsis.html


"Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)—138
mph (120 knots) CAS"

A glider can't maintain 120 knots in level flight, so does this restrict
a glider VNE to 120 knots?

"Greg Arnold" wrote in message ...

"Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)—138
mph (120 knots) CAS"

A glider can't maintain 120 knots in level flight, so does this restrict
a glider VNE to 120 knots?

What you say is true. It is obvious that FAA didn't know how to establish an appropriate speed limitation for gliders. It seemed to them that the obvious solution was to simply use the same number for both airplanes and gliders. There also seemed to be an underlying assumption that gliders are fragile; therefore the speed number should be assigned at Vne instead of Vh. It is all spelled out on page 44801 (and elsewhere) of the following document.
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf

For us living here in the Western US, limiting altitude to Light Sports Pilots to 10,000 MSL instead of some height about the ground show an additional lack of understanding glider safety. I often fly out of an airport located in a valley that is 6,000 MLS. The mountain range next to the valley varies from 10,000 MSL to 12,600 MLS. Under the current regulations I would not be able to fly out of the valley.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

Hi Gang
A lot of misunderstanding in the last 3 posts. Lets start with the
easiest to explain:

1) Altitude limitations for all LSA flying machines used to be 10,000
feet msl for LSA licensed pilots ONLY. If you fly a LSA like I do with
a regular single engine power license then I can fly my LSA without
altitude limitations. That's the primary reason to get a more advanced
ticket than a LSA ticket. This applies to all LSAs including LSA
gliders/motorgliders where you reallydo need a regular glider
license. No one flies a LSA glider solely on a LSA glider ticket. I
hope that explains one confusion.
2) I obtained from the Web a couple of years ago the proposed first
set of modifications and corrections to the LSA regs. In that proposal
was an altitude limit change to read maximum altitude for a LSA
licensed pilot only. The new limitation would be 10,000 feet msl or
2,000 feet agl. I believe that has been approved and is now effective
and will allow you to get over that mountain.

Now I think a couple of you are confusing maximum cruise speeds and
VNE. There is a difference! Maximum continuous cruise speed for any
LSA is 120 knots but at what manufacturer specified power level? Max
power? Probably not. The manufacturer has figured this loop hole out
and will specify that for continuous operation in cruise mode is say
at a specified power level. So the result is most new LSAs have gone
to big powerful engines with placated maximum cruise speeds at a
continuous power levels of say 70% which limits the max cruise speeds
to 120 knots or less. This probably implies that many LSAs will be and
are flown illegally at cruise speeds in excess of 120 knots. What a
huge gaping loop hole!
Except for LSA gliders/motorgliders there are no VNE limits on any
LSA flying machines and in fact most LSAs, mine included, have much
higher placated VNEs than 120 knots. There has never been a VNE limit
dictated by the FAA for any flying machine ever except for a LSA
glider! Why? Surely it is the manufacturer who defines a VNE limit
based on flutter and other considerations. What was the FAA thinking
about? A royal screwup and why didn't the SSA catch it? Go figure. Was
no one minding the store? Occam's razor logic probably applies here -
the simplest explanation is often correct.
Dave

One note of caution. If you fly an LSA powered aircraft above 10K', not
only do you need a private pilot license, but you also need a medical.

Mike Schumann

On 4/4/2010 5:45 PM, kd6veb wrote:
Hi Gang
A lot of misunderstanding in the last 3 posts. Lets start with the
easiest to explain:

1) Altitude limitations for all LSA flying machines used to be 10,000
feet msl for LSA licensed pilots ONLY. If you fly a LSA like I do with
a regular single engine power license then I can fly my LSA without
altitude limitations. That's the primary reason to get a more advanced
ticket than a LSA ticket. This applies to all LSAs including LSA
gliders/motorgliders where you reallydo need a regular glider
license. No one flies a LSA glider solely on a LSA glider ticket. I
hope that explains one confusion.
2) I obtained from the Web a couple of years ago the proposed first
set of modifications and corrections to the LSA regs. In that proposal
was an altitude limit change to read maximum altitude for a LSA
licensed pilot only. The new limitation would be 10,000 feet msl or
2,000 feet agl. I believe that has been approved and is now effective
and will allow you to get over that mountain.

Now I think a couple of you are confusing maximum cruise speeds and
VNE. There is a difference! Maximum continuous cruise speed for any
LSA is 120 knots but at what manufacturer specified power level? Max
power? Probably not. The manufacturer has figured this loop hole out
and will specify that for continuous operation in cruise mode is say
at a specified power level. So the result is most new LSAs have gone
to big powerful engines with placated maximum cruise speeds at a
continuous power levels of say 70% which limits the max cruise speeds
to 120 knots or less. This probably implies that many LSAs will be and
are flown illegally at cruise speeds in excess of 120 knots. What a
huge gaping loop hole!
Except for LSA gliders/motorgliders there are no VNE limits on any
LSA flying machines and in fact most LSAs, mine included, have much
higher placated VNEs than 120 knots. There has never been a VNE limit
dictated by the FAA for any flying machine ever except for a LSA
glider! Why? Surely it is the manufacturer who defines a VNE limit
based on flutter and other considerations. What was the FAA thinking
about? A royal screwup and why didn't the SSA catch it? Go figure. Was
no one minding the store? Occam's razor logic probably applies here -
the simplest explanation is often correct.
Dave


--
Mike Schumann

Greg Arnold wrote:
On 4/4/2010 11:21 AM, Scott wrote:


Maybe this will help explain the 120 Knot limit. Read through the whole
page and you will see it applies to gliders as well as powered aircraft.
http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/fina..._synopsis.html


"Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)—138
mph (120 knots) CAS"

A glider can't maintain 120 knots in level flight, so does this restrict
a glider VNE to 120 knots?

I would guess no, as I'm guessing that some light-sport (powered)
aircraft have a Vne of more than 120 knots.

On Apr 5, 3:49*am, Scott wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
On 4/4/2010 11:21 AM, Scott wrote:

Maybe this will help explain the 120 Knot limit. Read through the whole
page and you will see it applies to gliders as well as powered aircraft.

On Apr 5, 6:09*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Apr 5, 3:49*am, Scott wrote:

Greg Arnold wrote:
On 4/4/2010 11:21 AM, Scott wrote:

Maybe this will help explain the 120 Knot limit. Read through the whole
page and you will see it applies to gliders as well as powered aircraft.
http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/fina..._synopsis.html

"Maximum speed in level flight with maximum continuous power (Vh)—138
mph (120 knots) CAS"

A glider can't maintain 120 knots in level flight, so does this restrict
a glider VNE to 120 knots?

I would guess no, as I'm guessing that some light-sport (powered)
aircraft have a Vne of more than 120 knots.

Ok, now I'm confused.................do I start squawking 1201
everywhere or not? Been squalking 1200 in the Sacramento Valley and
0440 around Reno.
JJ * * Genesis-2

JJ

As Eric and Cindy have already stated I think it is best to do exactly
what you do today until it is confirmed that the appropriate ATC
facilities are actually set up to handle this. In the areas you are
referring to PASCO is going to clarify this with those facilities, so
stay tuned.

Darryl