Trim settings the same for takeoff and landing?

On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:
In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...







On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:
On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:



In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)? In reality it should configure the
airplane at a reasonable attitude for climb at full throttle with
airspeed somewhere around best angle of climb. I can tell you for
sure in a Mooney if the trim is correct for rotation it is soon going
to be adjusted as airspeed moves up.

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:29:37 -0700 (PDT), a wrote:

On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:
On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:



In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

*lol*

Because it's Mark(ie) the bi-polar "pilot".
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

*lol*

Because it's.

On Apr 23, 7:29*am, a wrote:
On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:





On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:

In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Because I do what my flight instructor tells me, as per
the check list, and we don't set trim until I've achieved
significant altitude.

In reality it should configure the
airplane at a reasonable attitude for climb at full throttle with
airspeed somewhere around best angle of climb.

Which is what we're doing.

I can tell you for
sure in a Mooney if the trim is correct for rotation it is soon going
to be adjusted as airspeed moves up.

Which is exactly what I do, readjust the trim to maintain
straight and level at my desired cruising speed.

---
Mark

On Apr 23, 7:29*am, a wrote:
On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:





On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:

In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.

---
Mark

On Apr 23, 4:34*pm, Mark wrote:
On Apr 23, 7:29*am, a wrote:



On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:

On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:

In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.

---
Mark

Oh really? It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.

On Apr 23, 5:53*pm, a wrote:
On Apr 23, 4:34*pm, Mark wrote:





On Apr 23, 7:29*am, a wrote:

On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:

On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:

In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight..... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.

---
Mark

Oh really? *It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer. No one around tonight, I
already called. One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional. And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army. Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.

---
Mark

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:34:02 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

On Apr 23, 5:53*pm, a wrote:
On Apr 23, 4:34*pm, Mark wrote:





On Apr 23, 7:29*am, a wrote:

On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:

On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:

In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.

---
Mark

Oh really? *It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer. No one around tonight, I
already called. One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional. And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army. Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.

---
Mark

Which one was trained in training mental health casenutz...like you,
Mark(ie), that's the guy we want to shoot!
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

On Apr 23, 6:34*pm, Mark wrote:
On Apr 23, 5:53*pm, a wrote:



On Apr 23, 4:34*pm, Mark wrote:

On Apr 23, 7:29*am, a wrote:

On Apr 23, 6:27*am, Mark wrote:

On Apr 22, 11:18*pm, Dave Doe wrote:

In article d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, says...

On Apr 21, 4:39*pm, george wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:02*am, " wrote:

On Apr 21, 12:44*am, Dave Doe wrote:

So many variables. **Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. *He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight..... *:-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.

---
Mark

Oh really? *It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer. *No one around tonight, I
already called. *One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional. *And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army. *Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.

---
Mark

I have not flown a 152 or 172 in some time. My training was, and
practice in BFRs is, to use the trim to negate yoke pressure and that
is what I do in the Mooney and among my friends at least the way they
fly their complex singles. Your instructors may do it differently --
if so, I'd encourage you to find different CFIs Take off and climb
speeds in these airplanes is markedly different than climb speeds, and
I don't want to fly a XC holding yoke pressure or adjusting airspeed
rather than trim. Moreover I descend most often at cruise speed, and
would rather trim for that attitude than to spend 20 minutes coming
down at 500 fpm from 11,000 feet holding forward pressure. You may
choose to fly differently. If you're being taught differently see my
'find different' comment above. Start with a badly out of trim
airplane and practice some under-the-hood recovery from unusual
attitude stuff. It's simply adding difficulty.

The Mooney, by the way, does not have trim tabs but can be trimmed.
Other complex singles do have tabs. Set the trim on one for takeoff
then look at the tab. You will likely find it out of trail. If you
bother landing one without adjusting trim from cruise (I don;t know
why you'd bother doing this, but never the less) unless the CG is
close to limits you'll find it close to in trail position if the
airplane is well rigged.

I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely. Others may have
different techniques to trimming an airplane -- mine is not broken, so
I choose not to change it, most especially when the authority quoted
is based on someone's alleged 152/172 experience.