Simulators

On May 16, 12:17*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
Yep, while some people are serious about simulation, there is nothing
serious about simulation as you would think it would relate to the
real world of flying.

I don't understand.

I know since I have real world experience AND MSFS experience. You
don't since you don't fly a real plane.

From what you've said in the past, it doesn't sound like you have any serious
simulation experience, although I suppose you've toyed with MSFS from time to
time.

There's quite a broad spectrum of MSFS users, from kiddie gamers to people who
spend more on their simulators than they would have to spend to get their
ATPLs.

So, why not post into the sim groups and say you fly a baron then
rec.aviatoin.piloting. *You don't fly a baron, you simulate flying a
baron.

Flight is flight. Most of the differences between simulation and the real
world tend to be insignificant in the wide world of aviation.

Since my last post, I've flown three times: a round trip of only nine miles
each way (which taught me that nine miles isn't far enough for a Bonanza), and
a 48-minute trip from Phoenix to Palm Springs, which went well until SoCal
Approach dragged its feet getting me below 11000 and forced me to go around.
At least I got some hand-flying practice in the Citation from that latter
flight.

MX wrote

Flight is flight. Most of the differences between simulation and the
real
world tend to be insignificant in the wide world of aviation.

When my most important customer is having some difficulties, I do NOT
simulate a flight to Rochester NY. I file an IFR flight plan, and go
there. That is, at least to my pragmatic way of thinking, a
significant difference.

My guess is a significant number of us use are ability to fly to
enhance our quality of life by going to interesting places, others do
that by enjoying the aesthetics of soaring.

And some play computer games.

Perhaps to some the pleasures are equivalent. To some of us, they are
not. For some of us, there's not an important overlap in learning
opportunity, To be lectured by one who has experienced only one side
as to its relevance is, well, you can fill in whatever word or phrase
you choose.

a writes:

When my most important customer is having some difficulties, I do NOT
simulate a flight to Rochester NY. I file an IFR flight plan, and go
there. That is, at least to my pragmatic way of thinking, a
significant difference.

If you regard flight as only transportation, then I agree. But if all you want
is transportation, simulation is irrelevant. In fact, you can drive a car and
avoid aviation entirely.

My guess is a significant number of us use are ability to fly to
enhance our quality of life by going to interesting places, others do
that by enjoying the aesthetics of soaring.

I don't think that someone who simply wants to get somewhere would decide to
become a pilot and fly there himself. That's an incredibly awkward, expensive
way to travel. People who become pilots usually have some intrinsic interest
in flying. On rare occasions, a person might become a pilot because he has
some extremely specific need for transportation that only an airplane can
provide (as when he must travel to rural areas of Alaska, for example).

For me, travel is a downside to real-world aviation. I hate travel. I don't
want to go anywhere. In fact, having to actually go somewhere is an excellent
reason to avoid flying for real in my book. A huge advantage of simulation for
me is that I can fly without the need to step outside my room.

Perhaps to some the pleasures are equivalent. To some of us, they are
not. For some of us, there's not an important overlap in learning
opportunity, To be lectured by one who has experienced only one side
as to its relevance is, well, you can fill in whatever word or phrase
you choose.

I note that people who are hostile towards me here always resent being told
anything by anyone else. They are very conscious of a semi-imaginary
hierarchy, like a treehouse club. They lord it over people whom they consider
inferior, and they grovel before people whom they consider superior (if any).
And they worry a lot about what other people think of them in general.

On May 16, 8:47*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
a writes:
When my most important customer is having some difficulties, I do NOT
simulate a flight to Rochester NY. I file an IFR flight plan, and go
there. That is, at least to my pragmatic way of thinking, a
significant difference.

If you regard flight as only transportation, then I agree. But if all you want
is transportation, simulation is irrelevant. In fact, you can drive a car and
avoid aviation entirely.

My guess is a significant number of us use are ability to fly to
enhance our quality of life by going to interesting places, others do
that by enjoying the aesthetics of soaring.

I don't think that someone who simply wants to get somewhere would decide to
become a pilot and fly there himself. That's an incredibly awkward, expensive
way to travel. People who become pilots usually have some intrinsic interest
in flying. On rare occasions, a person might become a pilot because he has
some extremely specific need for transportation that only an airplane can
provide (as when he must travel to rural areas of Alaska, for example).

For me, travel is a downside to real-world aviation. I hate travel. I don't
want to go anywhere. In fact, having to actually go somewhere is an excellent
reason to avoid flying for real in my book. A huge advantage of simulation for
me is that I can fly without the need to step outside my room.

Perhaps to some the pleasures are equivalent. To some of us, they are
not. For some of us, there's not an important overlap in learning
opportunity, *To be lectured by one who has experienced only one side
as to its relevance is, well, you can fill in whatever word or phrase
you choose.

I note that people who are hostile towards me here always resent being told
anything by anyone else. They are very conscious of a semi-imaginary
hierarchy, like a treehouse club. They lord it over people whom they consider
inferior, and they grovel before people whom they consider superior (if any).
And they worry a lot about what other people think of them in general.

MX wrote


I note that people who are hostile towards me here always resent being
told
anything by anyone else. They are very conscious of a semi-imaginary
hierarchy, like a treehouse club. They lord it over people whom they
consider
inferior, and they grovel before people whom they consider superior
(if any).
And they worry a lot about what other people think of them in
general.

Rather defensive, aren't you? I take pleasure in flying, and in
driving. You, having no PIC (actual) have little real world aviation
experience to draw on. "I read" or "I simulated" does not carry much
credibility, and to those ignorant but eager to learn of the realities
of general aviation would be prudent to consider the source of advice
and/or teachings. Your pontifications are sometimes right, other times
wrong. The reactions those statements draw help the inexperienced
reader evaluate them.

I've gotten useful ideas from this newsgroup, but not from you. Some
suggestions I've posted have become part of other aviator's
checklists, and that's a nice form of payback. I suspect it's a reward
you don't often get, but I could be wrong.

a writes:

Rather defensive, aren't you?

Not at all. Just making an observation.

You, having no PIC (actual) have little real world aviation
experience to draw on. "I read" or "I simulated" does not carry much
credibility, and to those ignorant but eager to learn of the realities
of general aviation would be prudent to consider the source of advice
and/or teachings.

There are instructors who have never flown. You can become an instructor
without flying, as I recall. Do you dismiss them as well?

Your pontifications are sometimes right, other times
wrong.

How often right, and how often wrong?

The reactions those statements draw help the inexperienced
reader evaluate them.

The smart reader always verifies everything he sees on USENET by some other
means.

I've gotten useful ideas from this newsgroup, but not from you. Some
suggestions I've posted have become part of other aviator's
checklists, and that's a nice form of payback. I suspect it's a reward
you don't often get, but I could be wrong.

Actually, I provide instruction in other venues, and that seems to work quite
well. There are far fewer dorks when there's no anonymity.

Mxsmanic wrote:

There are instructors who have never flown. You can become an instructor
without flying, as I recall. Do you dismiss them as well?

Only for a subset of things that do not require actual flight to teach,
such as how to do real flight planning.

You might want to look up such a person.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

Only for a subset of things that do not require actual flight to teach,
such as how to do real flight planning.

Hardly anything requires actual flight to teach.

You might want to look up such a person.

Or maybe I should become one.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Only for a subset of things that do not require actual flight to teach,
such as how to do real flight planning.

Hardly anything requires actual flight to teach.

If that nonsense were true the US Air Force wouldn't have a fleet of
primary trainers.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On May 16, 12:21*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
a writes:
Rather defensive, aren't you?

Not at all. Just making an observation.

You, having no PIC (actual) have little real world aviation
experience to draw on. "I read" or "I simulated" does not carry much
credibility, and to those ignorant but eager to learn of the realities
of general aviation would be prudent to consider the source of advice
and/or teachings.

There are instructors who have never flown. You can become an instructor
without flying, as I recall. Do you dismiss them as well?

Your pontifications are sometimes right, other times
wrong.

How often right, and how often wrong?

The reactions those statements draw help the inexperienced
reader evaluate them.

The smart reader always verifies everything he sees on USENET by some other
means.

I've gotten useful ideas from this newsgroup, but not from you. Some
suggestions I've posted have become part of other aviator's
checklists, and that's a nice form of payback. I suspect it's a reward
you don't often get, but I could be wrong.

Actually, I provide instruction in other venues, and that seems to work quite
well. There are far fewer dorks when there's no anonymity.

MXwrote


There are instructors who have never flown. You can become an
instructor
without flying, as I recall. Do you dismiss them as well?

I would dismiss as laughable anyone who presented themselves as a
certified flight instructor who had never flown as PIC. That is not
the sort of person I'd like instructing in spin recovery. There may
be areas in aviation where in instructor is not required to be
certified as a pilot, this pilot has found no need in some 3245 hours
TT for such 'instruction'.

It is the rare 800 mile trip where an M20J does not offer better door
to door time than does an airliner, and in the return trip, where on
leaves when ready rather than on an airliner's schedule the difference
is even greater. The only down side is a concluding dinner will not
include wine for me..

By the way, here's a question for other executives who might be
reading this: who does not agree with "18 holes of golf will tell you
more about a man's character than a 6 hour interview"? If I am
interviewing a mid to high level executive who is otherwise competent
and he mentions he plays golf, we're off to my club.

In article ,
says...

I don't think that someone who simply wants to get somewhere would decide to
become a pilot and fly there himself. That's an incredibly awkward, expensive
way to travel. People who become pilots usually have some intrinsic interest
in flying. On rare occasions, a person might become a pilot because he has
some extremely specific need for transportation that only an airplane can
provide (as when he must travel to rural areas of Alaska, for example).



It’s not really the topic of this thread, but I fully agree with that. Anyone
who is tempted to get into aviation in a pragmatic desire to solve a specific
transportation need (outside of Alaska or the Outback of Australia or
something) is probably going to come up short on the goods, and the initial
expressed need will not suffice to get him/her through the whole process of
getting and maintaining all the proficiency needed to do this successfully.
And if they do slug it out, still focused on that travel need and never
developing a passion for aviation, they are likely to make poor pilots. Their
initial decision was probably a poor one, and others are likely to follow.
However, someone passionate about aviation, motivated enough to go through the
whole thing, and who flies regularly. Someone to whom filing an IFR flight
plan and flying off somewhere is completely a non-event, is likely to procure
a huge amount of flexibility, a greatly widened operational footprint and the
satisfaction of being spared the grind of long drives and the belittling
aggravation that airline travel has become.

On May 16, 5:47*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

I note that people who are hostile towards me here always resent being told
anything by anyone else. They are very conscious of a semi-imaginary
hierarchy, like a treehouse club.


Actually, they're pilots and you're a fraud with a mental/social
disorder. That's all.

I don't mind being told things by others. They're hostile to you
because you're a fake. You talk about things with which you have no
experience as if you're an expert, and argue with literally ANYBODY
who disagrees with you, regardless of their experience. And yet you
continue to have no relevant experience in an actual airplane.

So it's kind of like walking into a doctor's conference with some
journal you read or a printout of something you found on the internet,
and telling the surgeon and staff that you're right and that if they
disagree, they're simply being hostile toward you.

Like playing a video game and then arguing with combat veterans about
what it's like to fight a war.

It's really that simple. Believe it or not, you actually ARE that
screwed in the head. Go out and log a few hours with an instructor and
people's opinions of you will change radically here. Not only that,
but you'll be able to demonstrate that you've flown a plane without
being a liar.