What if the germans...

From: "Keith Willshaw"

snip

A blind faith that only German can invent stuff doesnt make
it so.

Blind faith and orthodoxy should and could not replace objective and
investigative thinking,but as far as could remember we all were
railroaded to
think blindly that only one country could have built first bomb during
last 60
years.

On the contrary we all require which nation expended the
efforts to do so.

Keith

The simplest proof of who built the first atom bomb is who used it first. If
the Nazis had 2 bombs and denyav has stated they would have used at least one
even if they had to tansport it by boat or truck. Same for the Soviets.

If the Germans had the bomb and transported one to Antwerp, for example, and
lit it there it would have had an effect on the war. How much or in what way
can be debated as nasuem.

We are talking about a Germany that was so deperate as to train people to fly
piloted V-1s on suicide missions. They didn't even use those either.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (Denyav)

Denyav, you stated the Germans built two atomic bombs and tested one.
Several
of us asked you to provide evidence. You have not.

Its interesting that the evidence loving people do not care much when all
Jonastal and Olga documents,all Kammler documents as well as the portions of
the log book of a regular US infantry division remain under lock for 75 long
years (at least!).
(BTW you make a reality check for yourself and file a claim under Freedem of
Inf.Act)
Let me start with the newspapers and books that you can find in your local
library.
1)Eighth Army news dated 10.28.45
2)OSS Intelligence officer Ladislas Faragos book about Bormann
3)NYT Journalist Paul Mannings book "Frank Bormann,a Nazi in the Exile"
4)William Stevensons book "The Bormann Brotherhood"

In the mid 1970s Borman's bones were found in a Berlin dig. He never left
Berlin and died within a day or two of Hitler.

5)Carter Hydrics "critical mass"
6)Washington Post dated 10.9.45
7)Von Ardennes "erinnerungen"
8)Zippes "Historical Review"
9)Chertoks "Rakety I Ljudi" (russian)
10) US Army Col. Allans book "Lucky Forward"

No mention of atomic bombs, brief mention of an incomplete reactor.

11)NYT dated 8.27.45
12)London Times dated 8.28.45
13)Nick Cooks book "The Hunt for Zero point"

Yes, in a book of fantasy about antigravity.

14)Washington Post 10.10.45
And many more

Photos.
1)Photos of Zippe centrifuge cascades working in von Ardennes plant
2) Photos of first German test on island Ruegen taken from Stralsund.
3) Photo of Fat man ( German markings visible)

Provide a verifiable cite for these pictures please.

Eyewitness testimonies
Check out in 2001 published book "Das Geheimnis der deutchen Atombombe"
(The secret of German A-bomb)



You are hereby banished to the Island of Lost Frauds along with tarver,
teuton
and a few others.


I think Leslie Grove was the man tthat deserved this distinction,he is the
one
who used 2 billion dollars AND did not deliver anything in anytime in 1945.
He is the one who turned MP and ALSOS missions into cover up missions.


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (Denyav)


Denyav, you stated the Germans built two atomic bombs and tested one.
Several

Actually two not one.
First on island Ruegen in late 44 the second over TUP Ohrendorf in Jonastal,I
was not aware of the first one.

This is getting better and better. OK, the pigs had the atom bomb in late 1944
and had tested one either as an underground shot or surface shot and the other
was an air burst and no one seems to have noticed. No known radiation deaths or
illnesses down range? Neither bomb was tested over Antwerp, Paris or London?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The simplest proof of who built the first atom bomb is who used it first. If
the Nazis had 2 bombs and denyav has stated they would have used at least one
even if they had to tansport it by boat or truck. Same for the Soviets.

You forget that they were "incomplete" in april 45,what Germans needed a couple
of more weeks or like Eisenhower implied in his book "Crusade in Europa" a
couple of more months.
For the Hirosima and Nagazaki bombs I always used term "Assembled in US from
German components.
I agree if they were complete in early april Nazis would use them even in
Berlin.
In April 45 Soviet were far behind Germans,the same for Manhattan project
We are talking about a Germany that was so deperate as to train people to fly
piloted V-1s on suicide missions. They didn't even use those either.

They were trying to delay the advance of allies for a couple of weeks by all
means till their S weapons,A bombs was only one component of S weapon
development program,were ready.

This is getting better and better. OK, the pigs had the atom bomb in late
1944
and had tested one either as an underground shot or surface shot and the
other
was an air burst and no one seems to have noticed. No known radiation deaths
or
illnesses down range? Neither

Contrary to your assertions there are hundreds of deaths and also witnesses,but
their testimonies which include even almost whole population of a small town
Bitburg were not found credible,because all witnesses were either Germans or
forced laborers.
Ohrendorf test on March 4th has even been observed by a US plane crew but even
their testimony found not to credible.

If you are out there to cover up your 2 Billion dollar blunder instead of
finding truth,you can always find ways to manufacture your desired truth.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Denyav, you stated the Germans built two atomic bombs and tested one.
Several

Actually two not one.
First on island Ruegen in late 44 the second over TUP Ohrendorf in
Jonastal,I
was not aware of the first one.

Sure Denyav when they wanted to test a nuclear weapon they did it
on a small densely inhabited island in the Baltic and somehow none
of the thousands of people who lived there never saw a thing and
there are absolutely no signs of any such test ever having happened.

This is really believable NOT !

Heck, Keith, he never said they were *successful test*.
Or did he? I quite reading his post so long ago I really can't say.

No mention of atomic bombs, brief mention of an incomplete reactor.

Each book or Newspaper article usually emphasizes only one aspect or one event
in history of nuclear weapon development,you have to read all of them digest
information and need find new sources to complete the puzzle.
For example "critical mass" contains very good (but not full) info about U234
and her cargo.
So we learned that cargo of U234 contains more than 500kgs "enriched" weapon
grade uranium U235,not U238 or unenriched U235,as the spin doctors of Leslie
Groove wanted to make us believe.

Then next question is: how Germans produced over 500k weapon grade uranium in
44/45 ? with incomplete reactors,faulty centrifuges and incompetent scientist?

I think Eisenhower was right,a couple of months delay in occupation of Germany
would surely mean the greatest disaster mankind ever seen.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
This is getting better and better. OK, the pigs had the atom bomb in late
1944
and had tested one either as an underground shot or surface shot and the
other
was an air burst and no one seems to have noticed. No known radiation
deaths
or
illnesses down range? Neither

Contrary to your assertions there are hundreds of deaths and also
witnesses,but
their testimonies which include even almost whole population of a small
town
Bitburg were not found credible,because all witnesses were either Germans
or
forced laborers.
Ohrendorf test on March 4th has even been observed by a US plane crew but
even
their testimony found not to credible.

If you are out there to cover up your 2 Billion dollar blunder instead of
finding truth,you can always find ways to manufacture your desired truth.

You've been asked to produce sources for this claim. Put up or shut up.

tim gueguen 101867

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
The simplest proof of who built the first atom bomb is who used it first.
If
the Nazis had 2 bombs and denyav has stated they would have used at least
one
even if they had to tansport it by boat or truck. Same for the Soviets.

You forget that they were "incomplete" in april 45,what Germans needed a
couple
of more weeks or like Eisenhower implied in his book "Crusade in Europa" a
couple of more months.
For the Hirosima and Nagazaki bombs I always used term "Assembled in US
from
German components.

I asked you to provide a source for this claim several dozen post ago. So
where is it?

tim gueguen 101867

From: (Denyav)
Date: 1/23/2004 10:29 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

This is getting better and better. OK, the pigs had the atom bomb in late
1944
and had tested one either as an underground shot or surface shot and the
other
was an air burst and no one seems to have noticed. No known radiation deaths
or
illnesses down range? Neither

Contrary to your assertions there are hundreds of deaths and also
witnesses,but
their testimonies which include even almost whole population of a small town
Bitburg were not found credible,because all witnesses were either Germans or
forced laborers.

Next time I go to Bitburg I will take a geiger counter to see if your
implication of a nuke test there is valid.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired