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Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 18th 10, 07:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
Bob Myers
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Posts: 17
Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

Mxsmanic wrote:


There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion
that anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better
job of getting an plane home safely in an emergency, and (2) the
notion that someone without any piloting experience would necessarily
crash the airplane.


Your personal experience re piloting is...what, exactly?


Bob M.


  #2  
Old June 18th 10, 09:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
george
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Jun 19, 6:17*am, "Bob Myers" wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:

There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion
that anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better
job of getting an plane home safely in an emergency, and (2) the
notion that someone without any piloting experience would necessarily
crash the airplane.


Your personal experience re piloting is...what, exactly?

He's our own little Walter Mitty...
No doubt this incidence infringes on one of his dreams

  #3  
Old June 19th 10, 01:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
[email protected]
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Jun 18, 12:51*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

Not necessarily. In a situation like that, what would be most important would
be her ability to follow instructions precisely, and the availability of a
qualified pilot to guide her over the radio. These two things would override
any piloting experience she might have.


WRONG
  #4  
Old June 20th 10, 09:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
Wingnut
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:51:12 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

Wingnut writes:

Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.


Not necessarily.


So, you're sayign that flight experience is irrelevant to flying an
aircraft?

There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion
that anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better
job of getting an plane home safely in an emergency


The notion that experience at something improves one's ability at that
something is a "myth"? Since when?

(2) the notion that someone without any piloting experience would
necessarily crash the airplane.


I don't think anyone here has claimed that. Though the less someone knows
about operating an aircraft, the poorer their odds.

An experienced Cessna pilot without help over the radio will probably
get in some possibly fatal trouble


Not the scenario here. This person was a commercial pilot, not just
someone who had operated their own personal plane.
  #5  
Old June 20th 10, 10:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
Mxsmanic
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

Wingnut writes:

So, you're sayign that flight experience is irrelevant to flying an
aircraft?


That depends on the experience, and the aircraft. Flight experience in a
Cessna 152 will not necessarily be of any use in flying a 747 or a SR-71. The
basic principles are the same, but nothing more. Just as experience in driving
a Yugo doesn't necessarily help in driving a Formula 1 car.

The notion that experience at something improves one's ability at that
something is a "myth"? Since when?


A person with experience in a Cessna 152 still has none in a 747, and so he
will not necessarily be any more useful in a 747 cockpit than a non-pilot
would.

Pilots of small private aircraft who believe that they could just slip into a
747 cockpit and fly it are just as naive as non-pilots who believe the same
thing. To fly an airliner, you need experience and/or training in flying
airliners, not Piper Cubs.

I don't think anyone here has claimed that. Though the less someone knows
about operating an aircraft, the poorer their odds.


Yes. I've heard many people claim this, however, and it only shows that they
are uninformed.

A person with no flying experience who is compelled to take the controls of a
small aircraft without any automation runs a high risk of crashing. In a
large transport-category aircraft with heavy automation, though, he has a much
better chance of being able to land safely, if someone can give him
instructions over the radio. (Without instructions, his chances are just as
poor as they would be in the small aircraft.)

Not the scenario here. This person was a commercial pilot, not just
someone who had operated their own personal plane.


The same principle still applies to a certain extent, unless the commercial
pilot experience was in the same type of aircraft. If the FA had a CPL but had
not flown for 20 years, she may never have flown an airliner.
  #6  
Old June 20th 10, 06:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
[email protected]
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Wingnut writes:

Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.


Not necessarily. In a situation like that, what would be most important would
be her ability to follow instructions precisely, and the availability of a
qualified pilot to guide her over the radio. These two things would override
any piloting experience she might have.


Nope.

In a situation like that, what would be most important would be her ability
to stay calm, not panic and fly the airplane.

Look around at the average non-pilots in an airliner when a sudden noise
like the gear coming up happens and you will see lots of faces with
momentary fear and it gets worse with even the mildest of turbulence.

The reality is the average non-pilot is afraid of flying to some extent or
other and becomes frightened at just about every bump or sudden change in
the background noise.

My opinion is all the sensory inputs (of which those only "flying" sims
have no clue) along with the the huge responsibility of flying an aircraft
full of other people would likely overwhelm the average non-pilot.

And since all pilots are trained "to follow instructions precisely", that
becomes two reasons that a random pilot has better chances of success than
a random non-pilot.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
  #7  
Old June 20th 10, 10:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

writes:

In a situation like that, what would be most important would be her ability
to stay calm, not panic and fly the airplane.


She'll need to be able to follow instructions to fly the airplane. Most people
won't panic in a situation like that, although they may be very anxious.

Look around at the average non-pilots in an airliner when a sudden noise
like the gear coming up happens and you will see lots of faces with
momentary fear and it gets worse with even the mildest of turbulence.


When I look around at passengers in an airliner cabin, I usually don't see
anyone who even notices the noise of the gear retracting, and most ignore
turbulence as well unless it spills their drinks.

The reality is the average non-pilot is afraid of flying to some extent or
other and becomes frightened at just about every bump or sudden change in
the background noise.


Only a minority of people have a fear of flying, although it's a substantial
minority (around 14% according to some estimates, if I remember correctly).
The rest are non-pilots without fear.

My opinion is all the sensory inputs (of which those only "flying" sims
have no clue) ...


The sensory inputs are the same for pilots as they are for passengers.

... along with the the huge responsibility of flying an aircraft
full of other people would likely overwhelm the average non-pilot.


You greatly exaggerate the special character of flying. It doesn't scare
people that much (or at all), and they do not instantly panic when things go
wrong.

And since all pilots are trained "to follow instructions precisely", that
becomes two reasons that a random pilot has better chances of success than
a random non-pilot.


Pilots are trained to take responsibility and fly the airplane themselves.
Taking instructions is secondary to that.
  #8  
Old June 20th 10, 11:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Jun 20, 12:38*pm, wrote:

My opinion is all the sensory inputs (of which those only "flying" sims
have no clue) along with the the huge responsibility of flying an aircraft
full of other people would likely overwhelm the average non-pilot.

And since all pilots are trained "to follow instructions precisely", that
becomes two reasons that a random pilot has better chances of success than
a random non-pilot.


EXACTLY.

Case in point.

I flew a Cessna for the first time in 8 years. I was told the
avionics was similar to my Garmin 430 so I should not have ANY problem
adopting to the plane.

Sadly that was wrong and had I not had a pilot with me, I would still
be scratching my head trying to tune the frequency. Radio was such to
get odd numbers on the last two digits of the frequency, you had to
PULL the knob out and twist. 117.9, I had to pull the knob out to
dial in the 7. I didn't have to do that.

I cannot imagine the NON pilot even setting the altimeter since you
have to know to look for the kohlsman window to set it (if they find
the thing at all in the myriad of instruments on a jet) Experience
of the FA having pilot background was just one less step. She
probably didn't even have to be told where the PTT was on the yoke AND
that it's not a two way function like a telephone. I wouldn't expect
the non pilot to know this if they had to step up to the plate on an
emergency situation.

Yeah, anybody can read a check list, but when it comes to the rubber
meeting the road, I just don't see a non pilot doing the simple tasks
inside a cockpit of a 767. It's a visual sensory overload for a
passenger when I had the Sundowner, and I know it would be the same
for me trying to find things in a 767.

MX has no clue about sensory overload, the flat screen monitor twain't
the real world since everything can be seen without turning one's
head. Try that in a 767.
  #9  
Old June 19th 10, 12:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Jun 18, 12:13*am, Wingnut wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote:
It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it
was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she
actually did in the cockpit.


Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the
flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He
might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth
shattering for sure.


All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down
to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on
her role in the completion of this flight.


Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.


Actually her prior light plane flying experience could be a negative
believe it or not. Her ability to follow explicit instruction
resulting in any control input involves an aircraft time
line requiring a response to input correction involving an input to
initiate and an input to stop the response. Assuming a requirement for
a correct result each and every time a control input was initiated,
prior experience in a light plane enters the element of expectation
into the input equation for the newbie. In other words, the difference
between the actual result of any manual control input to a 767's
controls in any and all axis, especially when coupled, roll/
yaw.......pitch/roll etc.....by a newbie needing the result to be
right the first time tried from verbal instruction with the newbie
having an expected response based on a totally different airplane
places an EXTRA element into the equation that could easily extend/
alter/ or change the required response time line.
This scenario could easily make the correction time line longer than
it might have been had no expectation of aircraft response been
involved.
All this is just a fancy way of saying that prior experience in a
Cessna 150 might not matter in a 767 being landed by a newbie
following detailed instruction.
DH
  #10  
Old June 19th 10, 11:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air,rec.arts.movies.past-films,rec.arts.tv,alt.gossip.celebrities
Ari Silverstein
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Posts: 190
Default Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:11:10 -0700 (PDT), Dudley Henriques wrote:

All this is just a fancy way of saying that prior experience in a
Cessna 150 might not matter in a 767 being landed by a newbie
following detailed instruction.


Like Atta? Tell Dekker and Hilliard that.

lol
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!
 




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