Parowan midair?

On Jun 16, 11:48*am, Andy wrote:

Any more information available?

A fellow club member who is at Parowan provided this report"

"The excitement of the day was a mid-air between two motorgliders - an
ASH 26 and Ventus 2cx. The two ships collided in a thermal circling in
opposite directions. The nose of the Ventus impacted in the middle of
the ASH's left wing, near the spar. About six feet of the wing broke
off and departed the glider, and the leading edge showed severe stress
cracks. Gliders thermalling below witnessed a shower of debris. Both
aircraft remained controllable and the ASH landed successfully back at
Parowan. The Ventus completed the task and won the day!"

No report yet as to the condition of the 2cx.

Andy

On 6/16/2010 5:30 PM, Andy wrote:
On Jun 16, 11:48 am, wrote:

Any more information available?

A fellow club member who is at Parowan provided this report"

"The excitement of the day was a mid-air between two motorgliders - an
ASH 26 and Ventus 2cx. The two ships collided in a thermal circling in
opposite directions. The nose of the Ventus impacted in the middle of
the ASH's left wing, near the spar. About six feet of the wing broke
off and departed the glider, and the leading edge showed severe stress
cracks. Gliders thermalling below witnessed a shower of debris. Both
aircraft remained controllable and the ASH landed successfully back at
Parowan. The Ventus completed the task and won the day!"

No report yet as to the condition of the 2cx.

Andy




Ventuses must have amazingly tough noses if the glider is still flyable
(and the pilot still alive) after a head-on collision at that speed.

Greg Arnold wrote:
/snip/
Ventuses must have amazingly tough noses if the glider is still flyable
(and the pilot still alive) after a head-on collision at that speed.


I don't believe that any competent authority has yet determined that
the Ventus is still (safely) flyable...

Brian W

On Jun 17, 4:27*am, brian whatcott wrote:

* I don't believe that any competent authority has yet determined that
the Ventus is still (safely) flyable...

A follow-up report from my Parowan source indicates that the 2cx has
been inspected and has been determined to be airworthy. As to the
competence of the inspector I have no information. If the 2cx is
experimental I assume that the only requirements would be for the
person conducting the inspection to hold an airframe rating (the A of
A&P).

Andy

On 6/17/2010 10:40 AM, Andy wrote:
On Jun 17, 4:27 am, brian wrote:

I don't believe that any competent authority has yet determined that
the Ventus is still (safely) flyable...

A follow-up report from my Parowan source indicates that the 2cx has
been inspected and has been determined to be airworthy. As to the
competence of the inspector I have no information. If the 2cx is
experimental I assume that the only requirements would be for the
person conducting the inspection to hold an airframe rating (the A of
A&P).

Andy


I don't understand how one glider could take off the wing of another
glider without suffering some damage itself.

It's great that we have so many experienced opinions voiced on this
subject. Too bad none of them was in the cockpit at the time, much
less at the contest in question. In 45 years of glider flying, I've
very occasionally been in gaggles where there were midairs (never
involving me, fortunately). The first thing that usually happens--as
in this case, according to the contest report--is one or both pilots
announce the collision or otherwise communicate the situation. Then--
if they're still flying--each seeks input/in-air inspection from other
pilots in close proximity before making their decisions, which--as
here--may be different. In the cases I'm most familiar with, some
pilots have continued on, others have landed, wisely, as soon as
possible. I suspect the decision-making process varies depending on
the terrain, progress along the task to that point, weather, and state
of mind in addition to the condition of the aircraft. That's not to
say that one would fly on with safety in doubt, merely that every
situation is different.

I also know the pilot of the Ventus. He's highly experienced,
qualified, and motivated to win, but I would not consider him to be
incautious or of a "safety be damned" bent. I wasn't there that day so
except for this posting, I'll try to refrain from offering opinions.
Healthy facts-based debate in this forum is good. Speculation doesn't
accomplish much. Never forget that not all of the readers of this
newsgroup are knowledgeable and committed glider pilots. Let's not
make the same mistakes that we justifiably criticize the media for
making. Instead, let the facts emerge before we add fuel to a fire
that we started.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

On Jun 17, 12:43*pm, Chip Bearden wrote:
It's great that we have so many experienced opinions voiced on this
subject. Too bad none of them was in the cockpit at the time, much
less at the contest in question. In 45 years of glider flying, I've
very occasionally been in gaggles where there were midairs (never
involving me, fortunately). The first thing that usually happens--as
in this case, according to the contest report--is one or both pilots
announce the collision or otherwise communicate the situation. Then--
if they're still flying--each seeks input/in-air inspection from other
pilots in close proximity before making their decisions, which--as
here--may be different. In the cases I'm most familiar with, some
pilots have continued on, others have landed, wisely, as soon as
possible. I suspect the decision-making process varies depending on
the terrain, progress along the task to that point, weather, and state
of mind in addition to the condition of the aircraft. That's not to
say that one would fly on with safety in doubt, merely that every
situation is different.

I also know the pilot of the Ventus. He's highly experienced,
qualified, and motivated to win, but I would not consider him to be
incautious or of a "safety be damned" bent. I wasn't there that day so
except for this posting, I'll try to refrain from offering opinions.
Healthy facts-based debate in this forum is good. Speculation doesn't
accomplish much. Never forget that not all of the readers of this
newsgroup are knowledgeable and committed glider pilots. Let's not
make the same mistakes that we justifiably criticize the media for
making. Instead, let the facts emerge before we add fuel to a fire
that we started.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

Amen!

On Jun 17, 10:57*am, Greg Arnold wrote:

I don't understand how one glider could take off the wing of another
glider without suffering some damage itself.

I understand how one glider could take break the outboard portion of
another's wing and suffer only cosmetic damage. That's been done a
couple of times.