Parowan midair?

In yacht racing, a competitor can ask for and be given redress for
assisting another vessel that needs assistance. If memory serves me
correctly, it's usally an average of the daily score that the
assisting vessel obtained during the regatta.

Although I haven't any idea how this mid-air occured, there are blind
spots that people should be aware of. I had a near miss years ago at
a nationals when I was ahead and below another glider. Obviously, I
couldn't see above and behind me and he couldn't see "under his
feet". When I got a thermal and zoomed up, my tail missed his cockpit
by a few feet! The increased numbers of sailplanes in a contest,
following the same line of cloud streets or ridges, a moment of in
attention with your head in the panel, messing with your computer can
all add up to a statistic.

I think what we need to focus on is what can be learned from this
accident and what can be done to minimize the chances of it happening
to someone else. Personally, I think situations like this make a case
for getting Flarm or an equivalent system established here in the US.

Barry

On 6/18/2010 2:45 PM, drbdanieli wrote:
In yacht racing, a competitor can ask for and be given redress for
assisting another vessel that needs assistance. If memory serves me
correctly, it's usally an average of the daily score that the
assisting vessel obtained during the regatta.

Although I haven't any idea how this mid-air occured, there are blind
spots that people should be aware of. I had a near miss years ago at
a nationals when I was ahead and below another glider. Obviously, I
couldn't see above and behind me and he couldn't see "under his
feet". When I got a thermal and zoomed up, my tail missed his cockpit
by a few feet! The increased numbers of sailplanes in a contest,
following the same line of cloud streets or ridges, a moment of in
attention with your head in the panel, messing with your computer can
all add up to a statistic.

I think what we need to focus on is what can be learned from this
accident and what can be done to minimize the chances of it happening
to someone else. Personally, I think situations like this make a case
for getting Flarm or an equivalent system established here in the US.

Barry


We don't need FLARM, we need MITRE's low cost ADS-B transceiver. The
SSA needs to send a letter to Randy Babbitt using this accident as an
example of why we need a green light to get this unit certified ASAP.

--
Mike Schumann

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:46:15 -0400, Mike Schumann
wrote:


We don't need FLARM, we need MITRE's low cost ADS-B transceiver. The
SSA needs to send a letter to Randy Babbitt using this accident as an
example of why we need a green light to get this unit certified ASAP.

Mike, believe me:
If you have ever flown half a year with FLARM with lots of gliders
around (e.g contest), you are going to want one NOW - and you are not
going to have the patience to wait for the better solution that it
possibly available in 2012.

FLARM isnt't going to solve all of the problems, but I am pretty sure
that it would have prevented the incident we are talking about.




Andreas

On Jun 21, 1:23*am, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:46:15 -0400, Mike Schumann

wrote:
We don't need FLARM, we need MITRE's low cost ADS-B transceiver. *The
SSA needs to send a letter to Randy Babbitt using this accident as an
example of why we need a green light to get this unit certified ASAP.

Mike, believe me:
If you have ever flown half a year with FLARM with lots of gliders
around (e.g contest), you are going to want one NOW *- and you are not
going to have the patience to wait for the better solution that it
possibly available in 2012.

FLARM isnt't going to solve all of the problems, but I am pretty sure
that it would have prevented the incident we are talking about.

Andreas

I have flown with FLARM in a UK competition. It tells you that there
are other FLARM equipped gliders nearby and in a crowded thermal the
collision warning goes off quite frequently, even though you can see
the other gliders and there is no chance of collisions. If you get a
warning from another glider you haven't seen, it can be quite
difficult to work out where it is, especially in a circling situation.
It is not a substitute for keeping a good look out!

Derek C

On Jun 21, 7:04*am, Derek C wrote:
snip
It is not a substitute for keeping a good look out!

FLARM that is. Of course not, and the Flarm website is very clear
about that, but it can be a useful aid. I certainly appreciated
having it on the South Downs Ridge earlier this year.

Flarm saved my a$$ 2 weeks ago north of Samadan (just southwest from
Innsbruck). Snowline at 2000 meters,we were at 2300 meters flying
under the edge of a cloud Flarm warning goes off. Couldn't see
anything but rolled into a tight climbing turn. Directly in front,
backdrop of snow, was a Duo on the nose going for the same thermal. As
soon as we pulled up and turned the Duo rolled the other direction. No
harm no foul, no Flarm?????

2 sailplanes at the same altitude, snow on the rocks in the
background, we were doing 170KMH and he was probably moving pretty
fast also. Within seconds of the Flarm warning we would have been
turning and climbing into the thermal. Would we have seen the Dou? I
would like to think so! Should my family rely on that happening? That
is one to think about.

I know Flarm is probably not the answer in the US, not enough planes
have Flarm already to get critical mass. Here in the Alps and Germany
most XC planes are now equipped but there are still enough without to
cause some problems.

Please, keep a good lookout!

Bob

On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:46:15 -0400, Mike Schumann
wrote:


We don't need FLARM, we need MITRE's low cost ADS-B transceiver. The
SSA needs to send a letter to Randy Babbitt using this accident as an
example of why we need a green light to get this unit certified ASAP.

Mike, believe me:
If you have ever flown half a year with FLARM with lots of gliders
around (e.g contest), you are going to want one NOW - and you are not
going to have the patience to wait for the better solution that it
possibly available in 2012.

FLARM isnt't going to solve all of the problems, but I am pretty sure
that it would have prevented the incident we are talking about.




Andreas


FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. That is NOT going to
happen in the US. Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA
would certify the units. NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that
could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off
their but.

We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top
level attention to this. It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at
AOPA. They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have.

--
Mike Schumann

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message ...
On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote:

.... Snip ...


FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. That is NOT going to
happen in the US. Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA
would certify the units. NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that
could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off
their but.

We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top
level attention to this. It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at
AOPA. They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have.

--
Mike Schumann

Just courious, what do you consider "Low Cost." Us guys with old inexpensive sailplanes would like to know.

Wayne

I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you
compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life.

Bob 7U

On Jun 21, 11:18*am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
"Mike Schumann" wrote in ...
On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote:

... Snip ...



FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. *That is NOT going to
happen in the US. *Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA
would certify the units. *NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that
could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off
their but.

We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top
level attention to this. *It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at
AOPA. *They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have.

--
Mike Schumann

Just courious, what do you consider "Low Cost." *Us guys with old inexpensive sailplanes would like to know.

Wayne

Bob,

I don't appreciate the smart remark

I really want to know. I fly what I can afford. If ADS-B becomes required equipment and is more then I can afford. I will have to leave the sport the sport I love.

Wayne

..................................
"Bob 7U" wrote in message ...
I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you
compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life.

Bob 7U

On Jun 21, 11:18 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
"Mike Schumann" wrote in ...
On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote:

... Snip ...



FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. That is NOT going to
happen in the US. Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA
would certify the units. NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that
could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off
their but.

We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top
level attention to this. It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at
AOPA. They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have.

--
Mike Schumann

Just courious, what do you consider "Low Cost." Us guys with old inexpensive sailplanes would like to know.

Wayne