Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

Hatunen writes:

Indeed. That goes without saying. Theme parks are full of them.

Yes. It's a risky personality trait for people who operate vehicles. A
tremendous number of automobile accidents can be traced to this trait. And it
is often said that the most common last words of private pilots are "Watch
this!"

Except the pilots have to deal with it and aren't allowed to
cower in their sets.

I have never seen anyone cowering in his seat during a flight. The sensations
are exceedingly tame.

Of course it goes without saying that there are a number of
sensations that one can have when when piloting a plane smaller
than a 707 that airline passengers rarely experience, and when
they do it tends to be one of their last sensations.

"Watch this!"

Since your actual flying experience consists of being a passenger
on on large airliners it would serve you well to restrict your
comments to that experience.

Why?

I know that small planes move around more. It's one of several reasons to
avoid traveling in small planes.

By the way I've been a passenger on some smaller aircraft with
maybe ten or eleven seats, and the sensations are quite a bit
different than when a passenger on a 747.

So have I. I didn't find the sensations so very different as long as the
aircraft is competently flown.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
JohnT writes:

What physical sensations are you referring to?

All of them. Some people are very into strong sensations.

You don't fly and you know nothing about flying.

I have flown in airplanes many times. The sensations felt by pilots are
identical to those felt by passengers.

Yeah, sure.

What you gloss over is that airline pilots take great care to minimize any
sensations felt by passengers because it tends to scare them and make them
not want to fly that airline again.


--
Jim Pennino

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

I have flown in airplanes many times. The sensations felt by pilots are
identical to those felt by passengers.

How could you possibly know that as you have never ever flown any aircraft?
--
JohnT

JohnT writes:

How could you possibly know that as you have never ever flown any aircraft?

Because passengers and pilots share the same fuselage.

On Jun 23, 4:42*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
JohnT writes:
What physical sensations are you referring to?

All of them. Some people are very into strong sensations.

You don't fly and you know nothing about flying.

I have flown in airplanes many times. The sensations felt by pilots are
identical to those felt by passengers.

This is minor point, but anyone who thinks all sensations are
identical in an airplane, the differences being most evident in larger
ones, clearly does not understand the physics. An airplane is not a
point mass.

"Assume a spherical cow" indeed.

a writes:

This is minor point, but anyone who thinks all sensations are
identical in an airplane, the differences being most evident in larger
ones, clearly does not understand the physics. An airplane is not a
point mass.

Movements such as turbulence are generally translational: everyone on the
aircraft feels exactly the same thing.

Rotational movements about the center of gravity of the aircraft will have
magnitudes that vary with the distance from the CG, but passengers near the
cockpit or the tail of the aircraft will feel sensations that are essentially
identical to those felt by the pilots. In fact, on a 747, some passengers
(often in first class) will feel movements of larger magnitude than those felt
by the pilots.

So I do understand the physics, and the fact remains that everyone on the
airplane feels essentially the same thing. The notion that the pilots up front
are riding a bucking bronco while the passengers sleep in comfort in the back
is total fantasy.

Airliners are flown with great attention to smooth rides and gentle movements.
These rides and movements are just as smooth and gentle for the pilots as they
are for the passengers.

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:26:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Hatunen writes:

Nor can it realistically
simulate the feeling of aiming the plane at a real runway and
trying your best to grease the wheels on, but instead coming in a
bit high and trying to force the plne down to the runway without
bouncing too much.

Actually it does that rather well.

Your computer chair bounces?
As us8ual you deleted an important part of my post....

"In some fairness, it should be said that some computer
simulators perform pretty well, but it also has to be said that a
simulation on a PC can never be very realistic. It is far
different sitting in a real cockpit with a real yoke and real
pedals operating real ailerons, elevators and rudders."

.... which makes it clear I am talking about PC simulators.

A PC can never simulate that feeling in the
pit of your stomache when teh plane hits a downdraft and loses
2000 feet just like that.

Like many private pilots, you think of flight in terms of physical sensations.
This is only one of many possible interpretations, however.

You've never flown a plane. I have. The physical sensations can
be important when they occur, as they can distract from clear
thinking. A stall simulated on a PC can not ever accurately
convey the, um, thrill, of a full stall (especially your first
full stall as a student pilot) as you keep pulling back on the
yoke/joystick pointing the noise higher and higher as the stall
warning screams and then, WHAM!, the nose of the plane is pointed
downward, seemingly straight down at the ground, gaining speed
rapidly. The first time I did tht for my isntructor it scared the
crap out of me. (The plane itself is important here; our old
Piper J-3 would snap a stall break like you wouldn't believe,
real Six Flags sort of thing, while the Cessnas are a bit more
forgiving, and some light planes are designed to not break in a
stall at all but to simply lsoe altitude.)


A PC can not give you the feel of a plane as it is slowed to
stall speen with the stall warning blaring and the plane
shuddering a little. Andalthough they no longer teach it, a PC
cannot simulate the quiet but scary feeling f being in a spin and
the slight panic as you try to bring it out of that spin.

Since they no longer teach it, doesn't that mean that there are no longer any
Real Pilots? How can you know anything about a spin without spinning in a
real aircraft?

And the PC can not simulate the visual context of a real plane
where the instruments are spread out; you'd have to keep your
nose pretty close to the monitor to simulate this.

Actually, the PC can do this, with the right add-ons.

As to Mixie's apparent idea that somehow his PC is a good
emulation of a big-time simulator, where the cockpit layout is
very close to the appearance of the craft's real cockpit and
where the hydraulics on the simulator can create most of the
bumps and jerks of real flight, that is downright ludicrous.

I guess you haven't been flying or simming much recently. The cockpit layout
of the sim is realistic enough that you may not recognize it as a sim at first
glance. It's not difficult to display photo-realistic visuals, after all.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen writes:

Your computer chair bounces?

No, but the view out the window and the instruments tell me all that I need to
know. Vision is the most important sense in flying by far.

... which makes it clear I am talking about PC simulators.

PC simulators do a good job, too.

You've never flown a plane. I have.

Thank you for proving my point.

The physical sensations can be important when they occur, as they can
distract from clear thinking.

Yes, but much of their effect is a function of personality as well.

A stall simulated on a PC can not ever accurately
convey the, um, thrill, of a full stall (especially your first
full stall as a student pilot) as you keep pulling back on the
yoke/joystick pointing the noise higher and higher as the stall
warning screams and then, WHAM!, the nose of the plane is pointed
downward, seemingly straight down at the ground, gaining speed
rapidly.

Yes, I know. But I'm not a thrillseeker, and I don't need thrills to learn how
to fly.

The first time I did tht for my isntructor it scared the
crap out of me.

Did you know what to expect?

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Hatunen writes:

Your computer chair bounces?

No, but the view out the window and the instruments tell me all that I need to
know. Vision is the most important sense in flying by far.

Delusional babble.

It is important to learn how to handle ALL the sensory inputs, especially
the ones that tend to cause you to redo your breakfast.


--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

It is important to learn how to handle ALL the sensory inputs, especially
the ones that tend to cause you to redo your breakfast.

It's important to learn to ignore them. Some people are better at this than
others.