A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

How to run a wing?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 13th 10, 07:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default How to run a wing?

On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?

I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.

Derek C
  #2  
Old July 13th 10, 11:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
150flivver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 171
Default How to run a wing?

On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:



As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?

I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.

Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).
  #3  
Old July 13th 10, 11:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Grider Pirate
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 238
Default How to run a wing?

On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:
On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:





On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.


Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


This was what I was taught to do: Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.
  #4  
Old August 10th 10, 08:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default How to run a wing?

On Jul 13, 4:46*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:
On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:



On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:


On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.


Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


This was what I was taught to do: *Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. *If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. *Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. *If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.


On Sunday, I flew 12 CAP Cadet orientation rides in an ASK-21. The
Cadets only training for wing running was the on-line wing runner
course they swore they had taken before hand. They had never touched
a glider before.

I added one additional instruction to what they had learned. Instead
of holding the wings "level", I told them to BALANCE the glider with
their fingertips wherever it needed to be so there was no up or down
force on the wing tip. They were to run the wing at the angle where
it balanced. LEVEL was not applicable or important.

In cooperation with the wing runners, I placed the stick in the exact
center by reference to a mark on the instrument panel and held it
there as long as the wing runner held the wing.

I got 12 ABSOLUTELY PERFECT wing runs. In most cases, I didn't have
to move the stick until the glider was airborne. I didn't care what
hand they used or where they stood as long as they were safely outside/
behind the wing tip. In fact, they don't even have to run at all if
the glider starts out balanced - it'll take long enough for a wing to
fall, the glider will have plenty of airspeed before any aileron is
needed.
  #5  
Old August 11th 10, 06:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default How to run a wing?

On Aug 10, 8:36*pm, bildan wrote:
On Jul 13, 4:46*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:





On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:


On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:


On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.


Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


This was what I was taught to do: *Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. *If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. *Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. *If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.


On Sunday, I flew 12 CAP Cadet orientation rides in an ASK-21. *The
Cadets only training for wing running was the on-line wing runner
course they swore they had taken before hand. *They had never touched
a glider before.

I added one additional instruction to what they had learned. *Instead
of holding the wings "level", I told them to BALANCE the glider with
their fingertips wherever it needed to be so there was no up or down
force on the wing tip. *They were to run the wing at the angle where
it balanced. *LEVEL was not applicable or important.

In cooperation with the wing runners, I placed the stick in the exact
center by reference to a mark on the instrument panel and held it
there as long as the wing runner held the wing.

I got 12 ABSOLUTELY PERFECT wing runs. *In most cases, I didn't have
to move the stick until the glider was airborne. *I didn't care what
hand they used or where they stood as long as they were safely outside/
behind the wing tip. *In fact, they don't even have to run at all if
the glider starts out balanced - it'll take long enough for a wing to
fall, the glider will have plenty of airspeed before any aileron is
needed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Obviously no crosswinds, gusts or thermals on that day? The ASK-21 has
plenty of mass and stability, so it is the best possible candidate for
this technique. May not work quite as well for many single seaters,
especially if carrying water ballast, or if you have a tug aircraft
that generates a lot of propwash (e.g PZL Wiga).

Derek C

  #6  
Old August 11th 10, 07:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default How to run a wing?

On Aug 10, 11:23*pm, Derek C wrote:
On Aug 10, 8:36*pm, bildan wrote:



On Jul 13, 4:46*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:


On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:


On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:


On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.


Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


This was what I was taught to do: *Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. *If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. *Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. *If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.


On Sunday, I flew 12 CAP Cadet orientation rides in an ASK-21. *The
Cadets only training for wing running was the on-line wing runner
course they swore they had taken before hand. *They had never touched
a glider before.


I added one additional instruction to what they had learned. *Instead
of holding the wings "level", I told them to BALANCE the glider with
their fingertips wherever it needed to be so there was no up or down
force on the wing tip. *They were to run the wing at the angle where
it balanced. *LEVEL was not applicable or important.


In cooperation with the wing runners, I placed the stick in the exact
center by reference to a mark on the instrument panel and held it
there as long as the wing runner held the wing.


I got 12 ABSOLUTELY PERFECT wing runs. *In most cases, I didn't have
to move the stick until the glider was airborne. *I didn't care what
hand they used or where they stood as long as they were safely outside/
behind the wing tip. *In fact, they don't even have to run at all if
the glider starts out balanced - it'll take long enough for a wing to
fall, the glider will have plenty of airspeed before any aileron is
needed.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Obviously no crosswinds, gusts or thermals on that day? The ASK-21 has
plenty of mass and stability, so it is the best possible candidate for
this technique. May not work quite as well for many single seaters,
especially if carrying water ballast, or if you have a tug aircraft
that generates a lot of propwash (e.g PZL Wiga).

Derek C


Yes, there was a crosswind which is why it worked so well. It works
even better with ballasted single seaters.
  #7  
Old August 12th 10, 07:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default How to run a wing?

On Aug 11, 7:32*pm, bildan wrote:
On Aug 10, 11:23*pm, Derek C wrote:





On Aug 10, 8:36*pm, bildan wrote:


On Jul 13, 4:46*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:


On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:


On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:


On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.


Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


This was what I was taught to do: *Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. *If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. *Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. *If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.


On Sunday, I flew 12 CAP Cadet orientation rides in an ASK-21. *The
Cadets only training for wing running was the on-line wing runner
course they swore they had taken before hand. *They had never touched
a glider before.


I added one additional instruction to what they had learned. *Instead
of holding the wings "level", I told them to BALANCE the glider with
their fingertips wherever it needed to be so there was no up or down
force on the wing tip. *They were to run the wing at the angle where
it balanced. *LEVEL was not applicable or important.


In cooperation with the wing runners, I placed the stick in the exact
center by reference to a mark on the instrument panel and held it
there as long as the wing runner held the wing.


I got 12 ABSOLUTELY PERFECT wing runs. *In most cases, I didn't have
to move the stick until the glider was airborne. *I didn't care what
hand they used or where they stood as long as they were safely outside/
behind the wing tip. *In fact, they don't even have to run at all if
the glider starts out balanced - it'll take long enough for a wing to
fall, the glider will have plenty of airspeed before any aileron is
needed.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Obviously no crosswinds, gusts or thermals on that day? The ASK-21 has
plenty of mass and stability, so it is the best possible candidate for
this technique. May not work quite as well for many single seaters,
especially if carrying water ballast, or if you have a tug aircraft
that generates a lot of propwash (e.g PZL Wiga).


Derek C


Yes, there was a crosswind which is why it worked so well. *It works
even better with ballasted single seaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Would only work if the wing tip runner holds the downwind tip and runs
pretty fast before letting go. The aileron response of a fully water
ballasted glider can be pretty minimum until a good airspeed is
reached, or there is a good headwind to start with. It may be
necessary to hold the wings level for quite a few seconds before
starting the launch to allow the water to equilibrate in the tanks or
bags.

Derek C
  #8  
Old August 12th 10, 07:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default How to run a wing?

On Aug 11, 7:32*pm, bildan wrote:
On Aug 10, 11:23*pm, Derek C wrote:





On Aug 10, 8:36*pm, bildan wrote:


On Jul 13, 4:46*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:


On Jul 13, 3:14*pm, 150flivver wrote:


On Jul 13, 1:33*am, Derek C wrote:


On Jul 13, 12:31*am, Bob Whelan wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


I personally hold the wing as lightly as possible between my thumb and
first finger and at arms length. Some clubs I fly at also require the
wing tip runner to signal, so the two-handed method would not be
practical at these.


Derek C


As a tow pilot I'm looking for a rudder wag, radio call and or arm
signal from the wingrunner that the sailplane is ready to launch.
Lifting up the wing is gonna make me think that the glider's almost
ready but until I see a positive launch signal I'm gonna be
waitin' (and wondering if none of the three launch signals are
forthcoming).- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


This was what I was taught to do: *Once the pilot signals readiness by
giving me a thumbs up, I raise the wing to a wings level condition.
After the wing is level, I allow it to climb or descend, to cue the
pilot that he needs to apply some aileron to hold the wings level. *If
the pilot doesn't get the clue, and the takeoff roll starts, I was
taught again to allow the wing to move up or down SOME. *Most pilots
'get it' at this point, and start flying the wing.
When I'm flying the glider, I prefer the wing runner to hold the wing
as lightly as possible. *If there's a significant headwind, I often
wave off the wing runner altogether.
My pet 'wing runner' peave: Wing runners that 'help' by pushing
forward on the wing tip.


On Sunday, I flew 12 CAP Cadet orientation rides in an ASK-21. *The
Cadets only training for wing running was the on-line wing runner
course they swore they had taken before hand. *They had never touched
a glider before.


I added one additional instruction to what they had learned. *Instead
of holding the wings "level", I told them to BALANCE the glider with
their fingertips wherever it needed to be so there was no up or down
force on the wing tip. *They were to run the wing at the angle where
it balanced. *LEVEL was not applicable or important.


In cooperation with the wing runners, I placed the stick in the exact
center by reference to a mark on the instrument panel and held it
there as long as the wing runner held the wing.


I got 12 ABSOLUTELY PERFECT wing runs. *In most cases, I didn't have
to move the stick until the glider was airborne. *I didn't care what
hand they used or where they stood as long as they were safely outside/
behind the wing tip. *In fact, they don't even have to run at all if
the glider starts out balanced - it'll take long enough for a wing to
fall, the glider will have plenty of airspeed before any aileron is
needed.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Obviously no crosswinds, gusts or thermals on that day? The ASK-21 has
plenty of mass and stability, so it is the best possible candidate for
this technique. May not work quite as well for many single seaters,
especially if carrying water ballast, or if you have a tug aircraft
that generates a lot of propwash (e.g PZL Wiga).


Derek C


Yes, there was a crosswind which is why it worked so well. *It works
even better with ballasted single seaters.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Would only work if the wing tip runner holds the downwind tip and runs
pretty fast before letting go. The aileron response of a fully water
ballasted glider can be pretty minimum until a good airspeed is
reached, or there is a good headwind to start with. It may be
necessary to hold the wings level for quite a few seconds before
starting the launch to allow the water to equilibrate in the tanks or
bags.

Derek C
  #9  
Old July 14th 10, 09:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Whelan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 400
Default How to run a wing?

On Jul 13, 1:33 am, Derek wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:31 am, Bob wrote:

As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


Certainly a theoretical possibility (prematurely losing contact between
palm and wing undersurface, I mean)...this is an example of one of the
Devil's details noted in a previous post.

That said, all I can relate is my experience and an observation, neither
of which unequivocally answers your question.

In my experience (both as a wing runner and glider guider), neither
proposed possibility has ever occurred. Perhaps it's because - when
aerodynamically moving a glider wingtip is under consideration - tip
movement can't happen 'instantaneously'. Personally, I don't put my palm
beneath the wing's undersurface until the glider, glider pilot and I are
all ready to go; prior to that I'm engaging the wingtip by whatever
method I need to in order to achieve whatever it is I'm trying to
accomplish (e.g. lifting the tip off the ground...which I generally do
by grasping the leading edge of the wing; balancing w. partial water,
etc.). It's while doing these preliminaries I get a sense for how much
of an impact (or not) the existing wind/gust field is likely to have. As
noted, gusts have never been an issue for me - as a launcher or launchee.

Nor - by the time I've got the wing in place atop my palm - has any
tug's propwash ever been an issue. The only times I've witnessed
propwash affecting the glider a 1) about the time power is added to
take 'the bulk of' the slack out after the tug has completed positioning
itself (more or less) directly ahead of the glider, and 2) well after
the wingtip has been pulled forward/away-from my palm. In the former
instance, if I'm by a wingtip when it lifts from the ground, I generally
slide my foot beneath it to lessen any graceless 'concrete whap' which
might otherwise occur, while in the latter I've (definitionally) done
all I can do.

YMMV.

In any event, there's definitely more to wing running than would seem to
be the case to an uninformed, casual observer!

Bob W.
  #10  
Old August 11th 10, 05:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default How to run a wing?

On Jul 14, 9:59*pm, Bob Whelan wrote:
On Jul 13, 1:33 am, Derek *wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:31 am, Bob *wrote:


As for 'the silver bullet' in wing-tip-holding-methodology, I've (for
many years now) asked my runners to let the wing rest on their flat
palm, give me the best run they can, and let the tug pull the wing
ahead/away from their open palm...no risk of a(n accidentally held-back)
run; eliminates any winglet issues; never flown (or encountered) a
glider with a downstream protuberance that could hang on anyone's hand
(though I've little doubt one - somewhere - exists!).


If you let the wing rest on the palm of your hand as a wing runner,
how do you prevent the wing lifting off it in a crosswind, if a gust
of wind comes through, or if the tug propwash gets underneath it?


Certainly a theoretical possibility (prematurely losing contact between
palm and wing undersurface, I mean)...this is an example of one of the
Devil's details noted in a previous post.

That said, all I can relate is my experience and an observation, neither
of which unequivocally answers your question.

In my experience (both as a wing runner and glider guider), neither
proposed possibility has ever occurred. Perhaps it's because - when
aerodynamically moving a glider wingtip is under consideration - tip
movement can't happen 'instantaneously'. Personally, I don't put my palm
beneath the wing's undersurface until the glider, glider pilot and I are
all ready to go; prior to that I'm engaging the wingtip by whatever
method I need to in order to achieve whatever it is I'm trying to
accomplish (e.g. lifting the tip off the ground...which I generally do
by grasping the leading edge of the wing; balancing w. partial water,
etc.). It's while doing these preliminaries I get a sense for how much
of an impact (or not) the existing wind/gust field is likely to have. As
noted, gusts have never been an issue for me - as a launcher or launchee.

Nor - by the time I've got the wing in place atop my palm - has any
tug's propwash ever been an issue. The only times I've witnessed
propwash affecting the glider a 1) about the time power is added to
take 'the bulk of' the slack out after the tug has completed positioning
itself (more or less) directly ahead of the glider, and 2) well after
the wingtip has been pulled forward/away-from my palm. In the former
instance, if I'm by a wingtip when it lifts from the ground, I generally
slide my foot beneath it to lessen any graceless 'concrete whap' which
might otherwise occur, while in the latter I've (definitionally) done
all I can do.

YMMV.

In any event, there's definitely more to wing running than would seem to
be the case to an uninformed, casual observer!

Bob W.


Have you ever launched behind a PZL Wilga or similar radial engined
tug with a huge slow running propeller. The prop wash can be
horrendous and can easily force a wingtip onto the ground when the
wingtip runner lets go, or even while he is still holding it! The
resting on the palm technique probably won't work in this case.

Derek C
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low wing landing, high wing taking off...oops [email protected] Piloting 1 May 16th 08 09:41 PM
Soft field landings - low wing vs high wing aircraft Justin Gombos Piloting 19 May 23rd 07 05:21 AM
Books on Military Rotary Wing to Civilian Fixed Wing Transition? Greg Copeland Piloting 5 May 2nd 07 03:23 AM
High wing to low wing converts...or, visa versa? Jack Allison Owning 99 January 27th 05 11:10 AM
Mylar tape wing seals - effect on wing performance Simon Waddell Soaring 8 January 1st 04 03:46 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.