Phoebus C - why so cheap?

On Jul 21, 12:49*pm, Tony wrote:
On Jul 21, 1:00*pm, jim wynhoff wrote:

A year or two ago, there was a Phoebus *that sold for under $7k on
Wings and Wheels. *Now there's another (without a trailer) for $7k.
How does the value of a 17 meter, 42:1 glider NOT exceed that of a
1-26? *I already have a glider I love, but I still like to look at
OTHER gliders (don't tell UF).

Jim

i've heard there can be issues with the balsa core that may be
difficult or impossible to inspect. *they're basically first
generation glass. *don't forget that there were 700 1-26's built,
there is tons of expertise, spare parts, a strong type organization,
and they are robust as hell. *I do find a nice webpage from Bruno
Vassel that he had about his Phoebus and also a Yahoo Group, but have
a feeling that doesn't really compare with the 1-26 association.
Resale value involves a lot more than performance.

Hi Tony,

If having an association makes one glider more valuable than another,
the 1-26 is surely the most valuable glider in the world!

Concerning balsa core issue hearsay;

Before I bought my Phoebus C, I researched the balsa core issue, and
really could not find any issues that would justify the claim.
Apart from a problem with mold on a ASW-15 shear web, that was found
during an inspection, resulting in the issuance of an AD, I do not
know of another balsa related problem.

I also know of no problems resulting in crashes caused by using balsa
as a core material.

Concerning first generation glass....these sailplanes were built very
well and sometimes over designed to take into consideration any
unknowns concerning the new materials being used. This resulted, for
example, in the Phoebus having a 12 G spar. This also applies, to a
degree to the Libelle 301. After its certification in Germany, some
of the wings were sold for use in the Diamant where another 100 pounds
or so were added to the "wings load" with no modifications to the spar
or wings construction.

And then there is the abuse endured by some of the modified 301's
which are still around....

Mike

Hi Tony,

If having an association makes one glider more valuable than another,
the 1-26 is surely the most valuable glider in the world!

Concerning balsa core issue hearsay;

Before I bought my Phoebus C, I researched the balsa core issue, and
really could not find any issues that would justify the claim.
Apart from a problem with mold on a ASW-15 shear web, that was found
during an inspection, resulting in the issuance of an AD, I do not
know of another balsa related problem.

I also know of no problems resulting in crashes caused by using balsa
as a core material.

Concerning *first generation glass....these sailplanes were built very
well and sometimes over designed to take into consideration any
unknowns concerning the new materials being used. This resulted, for
example, in the Phoebus *having a 12 G spar. This also applies, to a
degree to the Libelle 301. *After its certification in Germany, some
of the wings were sold for use in the Diamant where another 100 pounds
or so were added to the "wings load" with no modifications to the spar
or wings construction.

And then there is the abuse endured by some of the modified 301's
which are still around....

Mike

mike,

i certainly think that the support network is part of the reason for
the relatively high resale value for 1-26's. if resale was based on
pure performance my cherokees would be worth more than a 1-26. as it
is i could maybe sell both of the Cherokees for the value of a good
1-26 with trailer. I'll believe you on the balsa. I have heard
stories of some neglected gliders having problems with the cores
getting wet and rotting. Perhaps they are just stories or perhaps
they were discovered before causing problems in flight.

I hear you on first generation glass being robust, for sure. i was
just saying that its an old glider and that could be adversely
affecting the value.

I've noticed after reading through the Soaring Magazine archive that
most gliders seem to be immune to inflation.