Aircraft Takeoff speeds

It's the takeoff weight, wing airfoil and incidence, lift devices and
ability to rotate to a given angle (tail clearance) that determine
liftoff speed (not taking into account air density, determined by
ambient conditions). From these factors the tire limit speed is
determined and tires manufactured to support that airplane. Note that
three airplanes, at least, are limited to a higher liftoff speed than
they could actually use because of tail drag - F102, F106 and F15. All
three can fly at a much higher angle of attack than te design limits.
I suspect the 757/767 are in the same boat. BTW I think the touchdown
speed on the Shuttle is higher than 200 mph. That's only about 173
Kts, less than some fighters. Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.
As I remember the tire limit speed on the DC10-30 was 217 knots. A
no-slat no-flap touchdown was right on that limit, too.
Our F104As with three external tanks and the dart tow rig rotated at
205 Kts and about 5000 feet of roll. That was the heaviest we flew at.
The F4E carrying dispensers for the CBU38 (? antitank munitions) on
the inboard pylons rotated at 196 but that was a CG problem. FWIW we
got one batch of F104 tires that were built and designed to someone's
erroneous specifications (built to a newly specified design) and we
were throwing treads off brand new tires on a light-loaded zipper -
only gun ammo and 2xAIM9s aboard. That was interesting . . . Shortly
thereafter the specs were changed to a performance criterion and the
problems disappeared.
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip
Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.

I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?

Elemental oxygen is some pretty nasty stuff and the shuttle does not have
car tires.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip
Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.

I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?

While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm

Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to reason
that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Pete

"Pete" wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip
Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.

I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?

While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm

I believe this tire contains rubber and would not be suitable for space
vehicles.

Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to
reason
that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Pete

Tarver Engineering wrote:
"Pete" wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip

Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.

I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?

While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm


I believe this tire contains rubber and would not be suitable for space
vehicles.


Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to

reason

that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Funny it doesn't say anything here about them not being made of rubber
http://aviation.webmichelin.com/about/space.html

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
Tarver Engineering wrote:
"Pete" wrote in message
...

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip

Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.

I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?

While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm


I believe this tire contains rubber and would not be suitable for space
vehicles.


Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to

reason

that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Funny it doesn't say anything here about them not being made of rubber
http://aviation.webmichelin.com/about/space.html

Noone cares what you don't know, Mullen.

Tarver Engineering wrote:
"John Mullen" wrote in message
...

Tarver Engineering wrote:

"Pete" wrote in message
. ..


"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...


"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip

Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.

I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?

While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm


I believe this tire contains rubber and would not be suitable for space
vehicles.



Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to

reason


that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Funny it doesn't say anything here about them not being made of rubber
http://aviation.webmichelin.com/about/space.html


Noone cares what you don't know, Mullen.



ISWYM. I certainly don't have such massive ignorance as you, splappy.

John

Pete wrote:

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...


"WaltBJ" wrote in message
snip


Tires are built for much higher speeds -
and you can buy them for your car. A waste of money unless you have
the right car, though.


I don't think so, do you have a reference for the car tire?



While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm

Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to reason
that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Pete




BFG "Z" rateds are for 149 plus. "Y" is for not over 186.

NHRA top speed for 2003 was about 333 mph with either Hoosiers or
Goodyears taking 'em down the track. Land speed records at 400-500-600+
were done on rubber. These days though, I think they are using some
type of alloy disc, no rubber involved.

"Mark and Kim Smith" wrote

While not *over* 200mph, this is close.
(Y) rated - tested to 186+mph
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...eral/speed.htm

Seeing as there are cars that can and will do 200+, it would stand to
reason
that there are tires built for them.
http://www.fantasycars.com/McLaren_F1/mclaren_f1.html

Pete




BFG "Z" rateds are for 149 plus. "Y" is for not over 186.


From the link above:
"When Z-speed rated tires were first introduced, they were thought to
reflect the highest tire speed rating that would ever be required, in excess
of 240 km/h or 149 mph. While Z-speed rated tires are capable of speeds in
excess of 149 mph, how far above 149 mph was not identified. That ultimately
caused the automotive industry to add W- and Y-speed ratings to identify the
tires that meet the needs of new vehicles that have extremely high top-speed
capabilities"


further:
"Most recently, when the Y-speed rating indicated in a service description
is enclosed in parenthesis, such as 285/35ZR19 (99Y), the top speed of the
tire has been tested in excess of 186 mph, 300 km/h indicated by the service
description as shown below:"

Pete

The F4E carrying dispensers for the CBU38 (? antitank munitions) on
the inboard pylons rotated at 196 but that was a CG problem. FWIW we
got one batch of F104 tires that were built and designed to someone's
erroneous specifications (built to a newly specified design) and we
were throwing treads off brand new tires on a light-loaded zipper -
only gun ammo and 2xAIM9s aboard. That was interesting . . . Shortly
thereafter the specs were changed to a performance criterion and the
problems disappeared.

The Phantoms I flew had a tire speed limit of 190. The aircraft would take
off no flap at about 175. It's true that unstick was a problem with
forward CG, I just find it amazing it required that much speed in the
configuration you describe.

CQ fuel weight cat shots required full aft stick ... typical fighter mission
(single centerline and 2x2 missiles) full aft and then a wrist rotation
forward of that.

Of all the aircraft I've flown, only the F-4 and the TA-4 had an issue with
T/O rotation. The F-8 required very little (obvious from its
configuration).

R / John