General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry

On 30 Jan 2004 22:40:41 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 1/30/04 1:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: OnASb.13425$Q_4.11977@okepread03

When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

Retired General George S. Patton III would later angrily charge that
Kerry's actions had "given aid and comfort to the enemy."

Supremely arrogant and demonstrably contemptuous of the voting public,
Kerry nevertheless regularly touts his military experience during his
presidential run. But he forfeited the right to do that 30 years ago.

And just what were your war exploits? Anything? What he did in combat no one
denies. And he is a hero and a fine soldier and leader of men as a result. And
where do you stand in terms of military acheivement against Lt. Kerry?.

Arthur Kramer

Well, Art, I think my military achievements qualify me to speak, and I
agree fully with General Patton's estimation of the honor and
integrity of Senator Kerry. The simple hypocrisy of the medal throwing
incident, using someone else's medals, followed by the prominent
display of the awards in his office for political expediency reduces
the man in my mind.

And, I might add that several hundred military aviators from the
period that I regularly correspond with in an email listserv, AF,
Navy, Marine and Army, are united in their disdain for the Senator.
The former POWs in the group in particular are bothered by the acts of
Senator Kerry.

As for the possession of the awards in the first place, we might wish
to recall that LBJ had a Silver Star as well, although his was won for
being a passenger on a mission in the combat zone, not necessarily a
combat mission. And Lt. Kerry's three Purple Hearts, it has been
reported in a number of sources recently resulted in no missed duty
days--it's a puzzlement.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 1/30/04 2:52 PM Pacific Standard Time

And Lt. Kerry's three Purple Hearts, it has been
reported in a number of sources recently resulted in no missed duty
days--it's a puzzlement.

I don't believe a word of it. Do you? And are you saying that every silver star
ever awarded is now null and void? Or only those awarded to members of opposite
political parties?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 30 Jan 2004 23:13:58 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 1/30/04 2:52 PM Pacific Standard Time

And Lt. Kerry's three Purple Hearts, it has been
reported in a number of sources recently resulted in no missed duty
days--it's a puzzlement.

I don't believe a word of it. Do you? And are you saying that every silver star
ever awarded is now null and void? Or only those awarded to members of opposite
political parties?

Unfortunately I do believe a word of it. The sources that I read
seemed pretty well documented.

And, I don't say that every Silver Star awarded is null and void. I
will, however, say that I know of a lot of decorations that were not
earned. The issue with Kerry, as Patton and others have noted, is that
he was overly eager to shed his uniform, join the anti-war movement
while hundreds of thousands of his brothers-in-arms were still in
battle, undermining their support very publicly, allying himself with
the likes of jane fonda, discarding his medals (oops, someone else's
medals) and now, when it suits his somewhat flexible politics,
recloaking himself in the mantle of a hero.

FWIW, mine haven't been thrown over any fences and they aren't on any
public office walls. They are in a drawer, but still valued. Probably
like yours. And, I've kept faith with my comrades.

Further, I really don't like Senator Kerry's comments regarding the
President and his qualifications to welcome home the troops he
commands by flying aboard a carrier. George W. Bush was both a
commissioned officer (like Kerry) and a fully qualified AF fighter
pilot (unlike Kerry.) No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.

Just so nobody misunderstands my defense of Kerry on this particular
matter, I hasten to agree with you here.

(But note that Kerry is current as a pilot

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Ed Rasimus wrote:
Further, I really don't like Senator Kerry's comments regarding the
President and his qualifications to welcome home the troops he
commands by flying aboard a carrier. George W. Bush was both a
commissioned officer (like Kerry) and a fully qualified AF fighter
pilot (unlike Kerry.) No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.


His father?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote
Ed Rasimus wrote:
Further, I really don't like Senator Kerry's comments regarding the
President and his qualifications to welcome home the troops he
commands by flying aboard a carrier. George W. Bush was both a
commissioned officer (like Kerry) and a fully qualified AF fighter
pilot (unlike Kerry.) No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.


His father?

Keep up man, keep up!

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:wb9Tb.15597$Q_4.8597@okepread03...

Keep up man, keep up!


I thought "His father?" was a valid response. George H. W. Bush was a
commissioned officer and USN torpedo bomber pilot. He's certainly no less
qualified than his son to don the Nomex and carry a helmet.

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 2/1/04 7:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: wb9Tb.15597$Q_4.8597@okepread03

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote
Ed Rasimus wrote:
Further, I really don't like Senator Kerry's comments regarding the
President and his qualifications to welcome home the troops he
commands by flying aboard a carrier. George W. Bush was both a
commissioned officer (like Kerry) and a fully qualified AF fighter
pilot (unlike Kerry.) No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.


His father?

Keep up man, keep up!




His father flew combat in WW II, The sonlflew combat nowhere and went AWOL from
his national guard unit and got away with it. If he can wear the Nomex suit,
anyone can.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

His father flew combat in WW II, The sonlflew combat nowhere and went
AWOL from his national guard unit and got away with it. If he can wear the
Nomex suit, anyone can.

Show me the AWOL charges, boy. I understand he made up for missed duty
by doing 37 days straight. Doesn't sound like an AWOL case I ever heard of, boy.

Thousands of men and women became fighter/interceptor pilots in the U.S. Air Force,
and never flew combat. President Bush can compare his flight log flying single-place
jet aircraft to your log as a crew-dog any day. Don't get so uppity boy.

On 02 Feb 2004 00:49:50 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 2/1/04 7:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: wb9Tb.15597$Q_4.8597@okepread03

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote
Ed Rasimus wrote:
Further, I really don't like Senator Kerry's comments regarding the
President and his qualifications to welcome home the troops he
commands by flying aboard a carrier. George W. Bush was both a
commissioned officer (like Kerry) and a fully qualified AF fighter
pilot (unlike Kerry.) No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.

His father flew combat in WW II, The sonlflew combat nowhere and went AWOL from
his national guard unit and got away with it. If he can wear the Nomex suit,
anyone can.

Arthur Kramer

OK, if turnabout is fair play and Art always asks for "your
qualifications" then I can say, GWB graduated from USAF pilot training
and qualified in a single seat, single engine fighter where he
performed satisfactorily for nearly four years of duty. Where did you
get your pilot's wings, Art?

But, that would be counter-productive, so let's see what the New York
Times had to say in a revision of the charges. No one can accuse the
NYT of being particularly conservative, and I don't expect Art will
change his mind, but here it is anyway:

Bush 'Desertion' Charge Debunked


Did President Bush "desert" the military, as radical filmmaker Michael
Moore insists he did? Presidential candidate Gen. Wesley Clark
suggested during New Hampshire's presidential debate Thursday night
that the facts on whether Bush ran out on his National Guard unit in
1972 and 1973 are in dispute.

But in the months before the 2000 presidential election, the New York
Times pretty much demolished this Democratic Party urban legend, a
myth that first surfaced in its sister paper, the Boston Globe.

"For a full year, there is no record that Bush showed up for the
periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen," the Globe insisted
in May 2000, in a report Moore currently cites on his Web site to
rebut ABC newsman Peter Jennings' debate challenge to Clark that the
story is "unsupported by the facts."

"I don't know whether [Moore's desertion charge] is supported by the
facts or not," Clark replied "I've never looked at it."

The Times did, however, look at it, and found that Bush had indeed
served during part of the time the Globe had him AWOL - and later made
up whatever time he missed after requesting permission for the
postponement.

In July 2000 the Times noted that Bush's chief accuser in the Globe
report, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, had begun to back away from
his story that Bush never appeared for service during the time in
question. "In a recent interview," said the Times, "[Turnipseed] took
a tiny step back, saying, 'I don't think he did, but I wouldn't stake
my life on it.'"

In fact, military records obtained by the Times showed that Turnipseed
was wrong and that the Globe had flubbed the story. "A review by The
Times showed that after a seven-month gap, he appeared for duty in
late November 1972 at least through July 1973," the paper noted on
Nov. 3, 2000. The Times explained:

"On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard
superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in
Montgomery [Alabama] 'for the months of September, October and
November,'" so Bush could manage the Senate campaign of Republican
Winton Blount.


"Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th
Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in
September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled
for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5."

After the Bush AWOL story had percolated for months, Col. Turnipseed
finally remembered another glitch in his story: the fact that National
Guard regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was
made up within the same quarter.

And, in fact - according to the Times - that's what Bush did.

"A document in Mr. Bush's military records," the paper said, "showed
credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending
Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in
January, April and May."

The paper found corroboration for the document, noting, "The May dates
correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on
April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report
for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10."

Yet another document obtained by the Times blew the Bush AWOL story
out of the water. It showed that Bush served at various times from May
29, 1973, through July 30, 1973 - "a period of time questioned by The
Globe," the Times sheepishly admitted.
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/1/24/154936.shtml

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8