Just pull the little red handle!

Little red handle anyone?
JJ

If I could put one in my standard category asw 27, I would.

In the meantime, why don't we get together and buy flarms, so we don't
run in to each other in the first place. They're even on sale for the
first 50 orders. I put my order in, so if you get one you won't run in
to me next year!

John Cochrane BB

With a BRS, what happens to your back and feet when you hit the
ground, still strapped inside the cockpit in a sitting position? At
the minimum I'd think you'd want a real good energy absorbing cushion,
and you probably should remember to lower the gear, too. I know, I
know - better alive than dead. But the thought of being crippled for
life is very sobering, too.

DG has posted some of their thoughts on Recovery Systems:
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/rettungssystem-e.html
Yeah, they're pushing NOAH, but there's some good stuff in this
article.

-John

If I could put one in my standard category asw 27, I would.

In the meantime, why don't we get together and buy flarms, so we don't
run in to each other in the first place. They're even on sale for the
first 50 orders. I put my order in, so if you get one you won't run in
to me next year!

John Cochrane BB

I agree with John. I prefer to avoid the midair first. So my
priority is PCAS, FLARM, Mode S transponder (with ADS-B out in the
future). With those systems up and running, the chance of a midair
is drastically reduced, IMO.

So instead of crying for a worst case solution, we should be pushing
for fleet wide adoption of less expensive and more useful solutions -
how about radios and FLARM in all gliders and towplanes? Or audio
varios and radios in all trainers? There is a lot we can do,
relatively inexpensively, before we get to the point of installing BRS
chutes in our gliders!

DG also has their NOAH system that can probably be retrofitted to most
gliders a lot easier than a BRS - that would be my first choice,
instead of riding down in the glider after a midair.

Kirk

On Aug 30, 12:35*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
In the meantime, why don't we get together and buy flarms

For one reason FLARM is not approved for use in US and for another I'm
not aware of any manufacturer that has published a date when it will
be available and approved for use in US.

I think if potential manufacturers were more open with plans,
specifications, and schedules there would be more interest.

Andy

On Aug 30, 2:21*pm, Andy wrote:
On Aug 30, 12:35*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

In the meantime, why don't we get together and buy flarms

For one reason FLARM is not approved for use in US and for another I'm
not aware of any manufacturer that has published a date when it will
be available and approved for use in US.

I think if potential manufacturers were more open with plans,
specifications, and schedules there would be more interest.

Andy

More interest? Jeez I see a very large interest in the PowerFLARM.

The manufacturer has put back their data for availability.
Distributors like Craggy Aero are now stating availability of
PowerFLARM December 2010. See See http://www.craggyaero.com/collision_avoidance.htm

PowerFLARM cannot be legally sold in the USA without FCC approval, so
that date implies FCC approval. If you want to order one and have
questions about availability or other things call Richard at Craggy,
or any of the other dealers...

There has been lots of comments on r.a.s on specifications. Dave
Nadler, myself and others who are aware of some of the details have
clarified this where there was questions. Seems at least part of the
problem was there were people who wanted to look at the ButterFly/
PowerFLARM European web site and would not believe us that things
there may not exactly apply to the USA version of the product.

Folks are working on putting up a web site with USA specific content,
but in the meantime what else exactly is not clear?

Darryl

On Aug 30, 4:13*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

Folks are working on putting up a web site with USA specific content,
but in the meantime what else exactly is not clear?

So you are saying that the only manufacturer's web site that provides
any information on PowerFLARM is not related to the US product, but
you still ask me what is not clear?

I have downloaded and read extensive documentation on FLARM, including
a user manual, installation guide, data port specification and also
checked on a FLARM forum. There is lots of information on the
exisitng FLARM products.

Please let me know when and where I can find the equivalent
information on US Power FLARM. That is the clarity I seek.

I have been interested in PowerFLARM since the first announcement of
an intention to make it available in US. That was a long time ago.
Having an interest is not the same as having an intention to spend a
lot of money on a product that is not yet available and for which no
specifications are published.

So, anyone who wants my money please send me the specifications that
the product is being designed to meet, a definition of what capability
will be in the first release, and a schedule for adding features that
are not included in the first release. First dealer to do that will
have the first bite at my wallet.

Andy

On Aug 31, 11:08*am, Andy wrote:
On Aug 30, 4:13*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

Folks are working on putting up a web site with USA specific content,
but in the meantime what else exactly is not clear?

So you are saying that the only manufacturer's web site that provides
any information on PowerFLARM is not related to the US product, but
you still ask me what is not clear?

I have downloaded and read extensive documentation on FLARM, including
a user manual, installation guide, data port specification and also
checked on a FLARM forum. *There is lots of information on the
existing FLARM products.

No what I was asking is what is not clear to you given I believe all
questions raised by anybody about this product on r.a.s. have pretty
much been answered. I'm trying to understand what else remains that is
causing confusion. If I can I'll either answer it here or make sure it
gets answered and ideally put up on the USA webs site.

The difference between the USA product and the European web site that
caused most confusion is the IGC recorder (a standard feature with up
to three diamond certification level in the USA model). I think that
has all been pointed out here before and is clear in Richard's web
site.

Also pointed out here before is ADS-B TIS-B is not shipping in the
initial product, as I've tried to point out before that's likely not
mentioned in the European web site since it is not relevant to use
there.

Documentation would be great, I'd love that too, but this is not yet a
shipping product.

So what else is not clear?

Darryl

On Aug 30, 2:21*pm, Andy wrote:
On Aug 30, 12:35*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

In the meantime, why don't we get together and buy flarms

For one reason FLARM is not approved for use in US and for another I'm
not aware of any manufacturer that has published a date when it will
be available and approved for use in US.

I think if potential manufacturers were more open with plans,
specifications, and schedules there would be more interest.

Andy

Andy,

I talked with one of the Flarm Directors today. He is confident that
PowerFlarm will be delivered in December 2010. The reason for the
delay was some part procurement problems. I believe the display.

Details at :

http://www.craggyaero.com/collision_avoidance.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Aug 30, 12:35*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
Little red handle anyone?
JJ

If I could put one in my standard category asw 27, I would.

In the meantime, why don't we get together and buy flarms, so we don't
run in to each other in the first place. They're even on sale for the
first 50 orders. I put my order in, so if you get one you won't run in
to me next year!

John Cochrane BB

Same here. If there was an option to add a BRS to my 27, I would, even
if it will be a substantial cost.
I flew hang gliders with a BRS system for many years, and know of a
number of hang glider pilots saved by this system.
While I doubt it will help with stall/spin accidents, which still
seems to be the cause of many accidents, a proper system should be
able to save most mid airs, control problems and structural failures.
But in the meantime, to address midairs, the PowerFlarm is the obvious
solution, and I just ordered mine. My hope is that within a year of
it's release, pilots who fly without them will feel unwelcome to a
point they will rather get one...

Ramy

My hope is that within a year of
it's release, pilots who fly without them will feel unwelcome to a
point they will rather get one...

Ramy

will you be establishing a scholarship fund for those of us who feel
unwelcome and unwealthy?