Future Club Training Gliders

On Sep 14, 12:44*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 14, 9:47*am, RN wrote:

The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at
alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we
will need.

We would be very interested in other club's experience with other
trainers, and what you are using and planning to use in the future.

Our evaluation parameters include high useful load for heavy students
and instructors, ease and availability of parts for maintenance and
repair, *durability for student solo operations, and up front cost .

John

Current production, training and ride gliders.

Last I heard K-21 wait was 6 months, but that was three months ago.
May be far different now. *Very popular.

There's no track record on the SZD-54 Perkoz yet, but price may be
favorable. *SZD-50 Puchacz, either you like them or you don't.

Clubs using DG-1000's and DG-505's seem quite pleased with them (apart
maybe from the subscription, if applicable)

PW-6 has been around a while. 7 on the US registry.

Possible production.

L-23. *Apparently still available but reportedly none built for a
while.

The Peregrine.....If you would consider one of these, you might write
them about your interest, quantity needed, and its suitability to your
requirements; training, rides, or recreational use.http://www.peregrineaerospace.com/
Such documented interest will help with their hunt for capital. *Tim
and Patti Barry have been trying to bring this glider to US production
for eight years, encountering some big hurdles along the way. *With
financial backing, they say they could be in production in 4-6
months. *Currently all tooling and stock is in storage. *About 60 have
been built as the Krosno KR-03a and are in several countries,
including 18 on the US registry. *Possibly lowest priced if returns to
production. *Will have to build three under FAA inspection.

Frank Whiteley

ASK-21's are expensive and hard to get but it's VERY hard to find
something to complain about on the glider. The ASK-21 is an absolute
joy to instruct in - big cockpits, big payload, wonderfully
coordinated controls, very forgiving, soars like an angel, easy to
rig, rugged as a tank. ASK-21's make people want to come back for
more, Beautiful glider - makes a 2-33 look like a boat anchor.

Oh, I guess I could complain about the rear canopy acting like a
parabolic mirror which can burn holes in the instructors headrest - if
you point it at the sun and leave the rear canopy open. But, you just
learn not to do that.

DG-505's are just as nice with better performance but perhaps a little
less rugged than an ASK-21.

Peregrine? I think maybe the L-13 debacle has taught us a lesson
about metal gliders.

PW-6? flew one once and liked it but I don't know how they are holding
up.

I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that
ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club
(chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to
fly and teach in.

John Cochrane

On Sep 14, 7:13*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that
ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club
(chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to
fly and teach in.

John Cochrane

Get the Schweizers to bring back the 2-33's, the best BASIC trainer
ever built....

On Sep 14, 7:49*pm, ray conlon wrote:


Get the Schweizers to bring back the 2-33's, the best BASIC trainer
ever built....

I remember a discussion that a group had asked L&S Soaring to redesign
the basic 2-33A, larger aft cockpit, and start building it again.
It may have been a Canadian group. But maybe there still is a US
market. And put a CG hook on it.

On Sep 14, 7:49*pm, ray conlon wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:13*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that
ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club
(chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to
fly and teach in.

John Cochrane

Get the Schweizers to bring back the 2-33's, the best BASIC trainer
ever built....

Yeah, and the Air Force is going to replace it's T-38s with AT-6s.
Sorry, but the 2-33 is simply not the right trainer anymore (if it
ever was, considering that it postdates the Blanik and is a
contemporary of the sweet little ASK-13!). We need to attract people
to this sport, not drive them away screaming (or laughing,,,)

Kirk

On Sep 14, 9:48*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
On Sep 14, 7:49*pm, ray conlon wrote:

On Sep 14, 7:13*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that
ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club
(chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to
fly and teach in.

John Cochrane

Get the Schweizers to bring back the 2-33's, the best BASIC trainer
ever built....

Yeah, and the Air Force is going to replace it's T-38s with AT-6s.
Sorry, but the 2-33 is simply not the right trainer anymore (if it
ever was, considering that it postdates the Blanik and is a
contemporary of the sweet little ASK-13!). *We need to attract people
to this sport, not drive them away screaming (or laughing,,,)

Kirk

Kirk, well said.

ASK-21 -- great solid and safe ship from a proven manufacturer capable
of supporting their fleet. Then get pilots into the Duos and DG-1000S
class club machines as soon as possible and you'll have more of a
chance of keeping them in the sport. At least give them lots of
chances early on to see what a high performance glider can do.

Darryl

On Sep 14, 10:09*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 14, 9:48*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:





On Sep 14, 7:49*pm, ray conlon wrote:

On Sep 14, 7:13*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that
ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club
(chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to
fly and teach in.

John Cochrane

Get the Schweizers to bring back the 2-33's, the best BASIC trainer
ever built....

Yeah, and the Air Force is going to replace it's T-38s with AT-6s.
Sorry, but the 2-33 is simply not the right trainer anymore (if it
ever was, considering that it postdates the Blanik and is a
contemporary of the sweet little ASK-13!). *We need to attract people
to this sport, not drive them away screaming (or laughing,,,)

Kirk

Kirk, well said.

ASK-21 -- great solid and safe ship from a proven manufacturer capable
of supporting their fleet. Then get pilots into the Duos and DG-1000S
class club machines as soon as possible and you'll have more of a
chance of keeping them in the sport. At least give them lots of
chances early on to see what a high performance glider can do.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am really curious. How many of you got into soaring with no prior
interest in flying? I wanted to fly since I was about 4 years old.
When I was 47, I finally got the chance, and almost all my lessons
were in a 2-33. Frankly I don't think it would have mattered to me
WHAT the club had to fly. I just wanted to be in the air.

On Sep 14, 10:30*pm, Grider Pirate wrote:
On Sep 14, 10:09*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Sep 14, 9:48*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:

On Sep 14, 7:49*pm, ray conlon wrote:

On Sep 14, 7:13*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

I just talked to John Murray about other stuff, and he mentioned that
ASK 21 are actually remarkably easy to get right now. Our club
(chicago glider club) just bought a new ASK21, and it's a joy both to
fly and teach in.

John Cochrane

Get the Schweizers to bring back the 2-33's, the best BASIC trainer
ever built....

Yeah, and the Air Force is going to replace it's T-38s with AT-6s.
Sorry, but the 2-33 is simply not the right trainer anymore (if it
ever was, considering that it postdates the Blanik and is a
contemporary of the sweet little ASK-13!). *We need to attract people
to this sport, not drive them away screaming (or laughing,,,)

Kirk

Kirk, well said.

ASK-21 -- great solid and safe ship from a proven manufacturer capable
of supporting their fleet. Then get pilots into the Duos and DG-1000S
class club machines as soon as possible and you'll have more of a
chance of keeping them in the sport. At least give them lots of
chances early on to see what a high performance glider can do.

Darryl- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am really curious. *How many of you got into soaring with no prior
interest in flying? *I wanted to fly since I was about 4 years old.
When I was 47, I finally got the chance, and almost all my lessons
were in a 2-33. *Frankly I don't think it would have mattered to me
WHAT the club had to fly. I just wanted to be in the air.

I got a power ticket at 17. Lost interest in my late-twenties, but
travel and living overseas for work was a part of that. Took a XC ride
in a Duo in my early forties. Yehow..... OK being in the air is great,
but after playing in a Duo I had no interest in flying a sardine can/
brick and that would not have encouraged me in the slightest to get a
glider rating. I had flown in a L13 as a teenager and thought the
Cessna 172 I flew was more interesting. That Duo ride lead to
suffering in a 2-32 to get my ticket so I could get back to the glass
stuff... club Grob, Pegasus, DG-1000S. And very quickly my own DG-303
and now ASH-26E.

Darryl

I am really curious. *How many of you got into soaring with no prior
interest in flying? *I wanted to fly since I was about 4 years old.
When I was 47, I finally got the chance, and almost all my lessons
were in a 2-33. *Frankly I don't think it would have mattered to me
WHAT the club had to fly. I just wanted to be in the air.

Yes I had an interest in all types of aircraft prior to my first
flight in a sailplane. I came to give it a try after 15+ years of
flying hang gliders and my first flight was in a 2-33. I can assure
you that I didn't get into flying sailplanes in order to fly a 2-33 or
a 1-26(No offense to the 1-26rs out there, it's just not what I
wanted). Hang gliding will give you far more challenges in going XC
than a 1-26 and you can do it without the hassles of towplanes, FAA
registration or the maintenance that comes along with sailplanes.

A sleek and beautiful glass ship screams efficiency and draws
attention even from non-flyers.

I am fortunate enough to own a Duo, a glider I bought in part because
my feeling is that far too many club members are lost because they
never experience the next level of performance and capability beyond
our basic trainers. The Blanik L-13 was a good step up from the 2-33
and a nice honest airplane that I enjoy flying, but still lacks the
performance of glass and is a bear to pack up and trailer making it
intimidating at a minimum for XC when the penalty for an off-field
landing is such a large effort.

When visitors come by the club and see the 2-33s and the Duo, which
one do you think draws their attention and interest in a demo more?
Does that mean I'm going to offer up my Duo for primary training?
Hell no, the 2-33 does a bang up job of taking the abuse of a new
student. But it does mean that a significant retraining or at least
additional training effort is required to get them prepared for flying
something slippery and pitch sensitive.

If it was within my power, I'd put an ASK-21 on the field. I wouldn't
toss out the 2-33's or 1-26's, but I would certainly love to replace
our L-13 with a 21 and have a glider to move people up in to and cross
train in.

Morgan

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 22:30:49 -0700, Grider Pirate wrote:

I am really curious. How many of you got into soaring with no prior
interest in flying? I wanted to fly since I was about 4 years old. When
I was 47, I finally got the chance, and almost all my lessons were in a
2-33. Frankly I don't think it would have mattered to me WHAT the club
had to fly. I just wanted to be in the air.

Sounds like me. I soloed two weeks after my 50th birthday. I flew a few
different types of aircraft before then, but, after the duo-discus, I
much preferred the Puchacz.

I didn't like flying the type that wouldn't spin - was that the ASK 21?

--
Alex