Future Club Training Gliders

On Sep 23, 5:26*pm, Derek C wrote:
Lasham bought a couple of DG1000s as all round trainers. However in
practice they are mostly only used for advanced cross-country
training. From a basic instructional point of view they are too
complicated (tail weights etc), too difficult to get in and out of,

That's why we got two of the fixed undercarriage version. Much much
easier to get in and out, no possibility of wheel up landings, only
very slightly more expensive than an ASK21, and still far better
performance than an ASK21 or Grob. Pretty similar to the 18m Janus we
sold to finance them, but without the flaps, horrid control balance,
or CofG hook.

http://soar.co.nz/dgsmall.JPG

and have awful ground handling (we have the 2 wheel version - the tail
weights a ton).

The fixed undercarriage version is a lot lighter on the tail. Optimum
CofG sees it essentially balanced on the main wheel, and very light on
either the tail or nose wheel.

We don't faf about with the weights much. Most of the time we have 4
or 5 kg in the tail and just leave them there, giving a similar
cockpit load range to any other glider. But the option is there if you
want it and we certainly do it if there's going to be an extra large
or small person in the front.

They spin rather too well and lose a lot of height in the process.

Sure, but it's not as if it's without a lot of warning! I've done
plenty of time in small and bumpy thermals in ours and never had any
problem. You're very clearly into inefficient mushing and buffeting
long before there's a wing drop.

On Sep 23, 8:24*am, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Sep 23, 5:26*pm, Derek C wrote:

Lasham bought a couple of DG1000s as all round trainers. However in
practice they are mostly only used for advanced cross-country
training. From a basic instructional point of view they are too
complicated (tail weights etc), too difficult to get in and out of,

That's why we got two of the fixed undercarriage version. *Much much
easier to get in and out, no possibility of wheel up landings, only
very slightly more expensive than an ASK21, and still far better
performance than an ASK21 or Grob. *Pretty similar to the 18m Janus we
sold to finance them, but without the flaps, horrid control balance,
or CofG hook.

http://soar.co.nz/dgsmall.JPG

and have awful ground handling (we have the 2 wheel version - the tail
weights a ton).

The fixed undercarriage version is a lot lighter on the tail. Optimum
CofG sees it essentially balanced on the main wheel, and very light on
either the tail or nose wheel.

We don't faf about with the weights much. Most of the time we have 4
or 5 kg in the tail and just leave them there, giving a similar
cockpit load range to any other glider. But the option is there if you
want it and we certainly do it if there's going to be an extra large
or small person in the front.

They spin rather too well and lose a lot of height in the process.

Sure, but it's not as if it's without a lot of warning! *I've done
plenty of *time in small and bumpy thermals in ours and never had any
problem. You're very clearly into inefficient mushing and buffeting
long before there's a wing drop.

The three wheeler version also has issues, including much longer take
off and landing runs (due to the small angle of incidence of the wing
to the fuselage) and the possibility of tail damage from snatched
winch launches slamming the tail wheel onto the ground. The DG1000 is
lovely to fly and is very docile right down to the stall, at which
point it can drop a wing and depart into a spin without much warning.
The spin can go flat and take some time to recover. It is not a glider
you would want to deliberately spin much below 3000ft.

People with very short or very long arms have problems operating the
retractable undercarriage. It is difficult to lock down and we have
had numerous undercarriage collapses on touchdown when pilots have
failed to do so properly. There is no obvious detent to ensure that
the U/C is locked down. The latest versions have an electrically
operated retractable undercarriage,which says it all!

On the plus side it has very powerful airbrakes and K13 trained pilots
have no difficulty (apart from the U/C) in converting to it, unlike
our Duo Discus which tends to run away with them on approach.

Derek C

The ASK 13 is probably the best and simplest glider to operate effectively
as a twoseat trainer. not necassarily the best for prepping pilots to fly
slippery glass single seaters. However it does exactly what it says on the
tin and if, you can fly a K13 well and accurately then you can prpobably
fly most other gliders too that the potential pilot will progress to
next.


At 22:23 23 September 2010, Derek C wrote:
On Sep 23, 8:24=A0am, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Sep 23, 5:26=A0pm, Derek C wrote:

Lasham bought a couple of DG1000s as all round trainers. However in
practice they are mostly only used for advanced cross-country
training. From a basic instructional point of view they are too
complicated (tail weights etc), too difficult to get in and out of,

That's why we got two of the fixed undercarriage version. =A0Much
much
easier to get in and out, no possibility of wheel up landings, only
very slightly more expensive than an ASK21, and still far better
performance than an ASK21 or Grob. =A0Pretty similar to the 18m Janus
we
sold to finance them, but without the flaps, horrid control balance,
or CofG hook.

http://soar.co.nz/dgsmall.JPG

and have awful ground handling (we have the 2 wheel version - the
tail
weights a ton).

The fixed undercarriage version is a lot lighter on the tail. Optimum
CofG sees it essentially balanced on the main wheel, and very light on
either the tail or nose wheel.

We don't faf about with the weights much. Most of the time we have 4
or 5 kg in the tail and just leave them there, giving a similar
cockpit load range to any other glider. But the option is there if you
want it and we certainly do it if there's going to be an extra large
or small person in the front.

They spin rather too well and lose a lot of height in the process.

Sure, but it's not as if it's without a lot of warning! =A0I've
done
plenty of =A0time in small and bumpy thermals in ours and never had
any
problem. You're very clearly into inefficient mushing and buffeting
long before there's a wing drop.

The three wheeler version also has issues, including much longer take
off and landing runs (due to the small angle of incidence of the wing
to the fuselage) and the possibility of tail damage from snatched
winch launches slamming the tail wheel onto the ground. The DG1000 is
lovely to fly and is very docile right down to the stall, at which
point it can drop a wing and depart into a spin without much warning.
The spin can go flat and take some time to recover. It is not a glider
you would want to deliberately spin much below 3000ft.

People with very short or very long arms have problems operating the
retractable undercarriage. It is difficult to lock down and we have
had numerous undercarriage collapses on touchdown when pilots have
failed to do so properly. There is no obvious detent to ensure that
the U/C is locked down. The latest versions have an electrically
operated retractable undercarriage,which says it all!

On the plus side it has very powerful airbrakes and K13 trained pilots
have no difficulty (apart from the U/C) in converting to it, unlike
our Duo Discus which tends to run away with them on approach.

Derek C

In article
,
bildan wrote:

On Sep 14, 12:44*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 14, 9:47*am, RN wrote:

The current issues with the L-13 Blaniks has our club looking at
alternatives and developing a plan for the future training gliders we
will need.



For a training on a budget, it's really hard to beat a Ka-13 or Ka-7,
except that they have fairly small cockpits. We sold off our Ka-7
because about half the folks who came to us for training just could not
fit their legs under the panel and/or were too heavy. Still, that Ka-7
soldiers on in a commercial training operation today!