How high can you fly?

On Sep 18, 1:37*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

Gibberish.

Eludication: my sentence ends in a question mark. The figure
was discriminate and taken from reference to U-2 heights.
Airfoils stop working in thin density. I asked when.

Little airplanes aren't presurized because the seals to keep things like
doors and windows from leaking are heavy. A soda can can hold 100 psi.

Little planes aren't pressurized because the ones I'm proposing
aren't currently able to reach anywhere near these elevations. Given
the heights I'm proposing, the airframe will buckle if the cabin is
pressurized. Fact.

And you bet the electric motor is heated, you will play hell keeping it
cool, even at altitude.

Brushless DC motors are different from conventional ones.
Brushless aka BLDC motors, or electronically commutated
motors are synchronous electric motors which have electronic
commutation systems rather than mechanical commutators
and brushes. The current-to-torque and voltage-to-speed
relationships are linear.

They are much more highly efficient, and eliminate ionizing
sparks from the commutator. They are not subjected to
centrifugal forces and can be cooled by conduction. This
allows them to be enclosed, which, protects them from dirt
and debris.

---
Mark

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Mark wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:37Â*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

Gibberish.

Eludication: my sentence ends in a question mark. The figure
was discriminate and taken from reference to U-2 heights.
Airfoils stop working in thin density. I asked when.

I wan't talking about the last sentence; your entire post is gibberish.

Little airplanes aren't presurized because the seals to keep things like
doors and windows from leaking are heavy. A soda can can hold 100 psi.

Little planes aren't pressurized because the ones I'm proposing
aren't currently able to reach anywhere near these elevations. Given
the heights I'm proposing, the airframe will buckle if the cabin is
pressurized. Fact.

If the airplane went into space and the interior were pressurized to sea
level, the pressure diffential would be about 14 psi.

The extremely thin aluminum in a soda can holds a pressure differential
of 100 psi.

The Apollo craft were pressurized and the skin on them is so thin the
average person could punch a hole through it bare handed.

You are full of crap.

And you bet the electric motor is heated, you will play hell keeping it
cool, even at altitude.

Brushless DC motors are different from conventional ones.

All motors have loss and the loss shows up as heat.

Cooling things at altitude is a problem because even though the air is cold,
it is very thin and you have to move a lot of it.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 18, 5:19*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:37*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

Gibberish.

Eludication: my sentence ends in a question mark. The figure
was discriminate and taken from reference to U-2 heights.
Airfoils stop working in thin density. I asked when.

I wan't talking about the last sentence; your entire post is gibberish.

Little airplanes aren't presurized because the seals to keep things like
doors and windows from leaking are heavy. A soda can can hold 100 psi.

Little planes aren't pressurized because the ones I'm proposing
aren't currently able to reach anywhere near these elevations. Given
the heights I'm proposing, the airframe will buckle if the cabin is
pressurized. Fact.

If the airplane went into space and the interior were pressurized to sea
level, the pressure diffential would be about 14 psi.

The extremely thin aluminum in a soda can holds a pressure differential
of 100 psi.

The Apollo craft were pressurized and the skin on them is so thin the
average person could punch a hole through it bare handed.

You are full of crap.

And you bet the electric motor is heated, you will play hell keeping it
cool, even at altitude.

Brushless DC motors are different from conventional ones.

All motors have loss and the loss shows up as heat.

Cooling things at altitude is a problem because even though the air is cold,
it is very thin and you have to move a lot of it.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I studied the topic of service ceilings as well as ramifications
of what can occur at this elevation. Do the same and find
out about airframe distortion, pressure loss and break-ups.
It's aviation 101, not Coke can 101. You can stand on an
upright egg collection. You can stand on a coke can. Your
anologys are laughable. Spacecraft are made different
than Cessnas.

Read for content. Air density and cooling aren't relevant
to a sealed unit.

---
Mark

Mark wrote:
On Sep 18, 5:19Â*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:37Â*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

Gibberish.

Eludication: my sentence ends in a question mark. The figure
was discriminate and taken from reference to U-2 heights.
Airfoils stop working in thin density. I asked when.

I wan't talking about the last sentence; your entire post is gibberish.

Little airplanes aren't presurized because the seals to keep things like
doors and windows from leaking are heavy. A soda can can hold 100 psi.

Little planes aren't pressurized because the ones I'm proposing
aren't currently able to reach anywhere near these elevations. Given
the heights I'm proposing, the airframe will buckle if the cabin is
pressurized. Fact.

If the airplane went into space and the interior were pressurized to sea
level, the pressure diffential would be about 14 psi.

The extremely thin aluminum in a soda can holds a pressure differential
of 100 psi.

The Apollo craft were pressurized and the skin on them is so thin the
average person could punch a hole through it bare handed.

You are full of crap.

And you bet the electric motor is heated, you will play hell keeping it
cool, even at altitude.

Brushless DC motors are different from conventional ones.

All motors have loss and the loss shows up as heat.

Cooling things at altitude is a problem because even though the air is cold,
it is very thin and you have to move a lot of it.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I studied the topic of service ceilings as well as ramifications
of what can occur at this elevation. Do the same and find
out about airframe distortion, pressure loss and break-ups.
It's aviation 101, not Coke can 101. You can stand on an
upright egg collection. You can stand on a coke can. Your
anologys are laughable. Spacecraft are made different
than Cessnas.

Babbling nonsense.

Read for content. Air density and cooling aren't relevant
to a sealed unit.

Cooling is especially relevant for heat producing sealed units.

Are you sure you aren't around 12 years old?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 18, 6:08*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 18, 5:19*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:37*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

Gibberish.

Eludication: my sentence ends in a question mark. The figure
was discriminate and taken from reference to U-2 heights.
Airfoils stop working in thin density. I asked when.

I wan't talking about the last sentence; your entire post is gibberish..

Little airplanes aren't presurized because the seals to keep things like
doors and windows from leaking are heavy. A soda can can hold 100 psi.

Little planes aren't pressurized because the ones I'm proposing
aren't currently able to reach anywhere near these elevations. Given
the heights I'm proposing, the airframe will buckle if the cabin is
pressurized. Fact.

If the airplane went into space and the interior were pressurized to sea
level, the pressure diffential would be about 14 psi.

The extremely thin aluminum in a soda can holds a pressure differential
of 100 psi.

The Apollo craft were pressurized and the skin on them is so thin the
average person could punch a hole through it bare handed.

You are full of crap.

And you bet the electric motor is heated, you will play hell keeping it
cool, even at altitude.

Brushless DC motors are different from conventional ones.

All motors have loss and the loss shows up as heat.

Cooling things at altitude is a problem because even though the air is cold,
it is very thin and you have to move a lot of it.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I studied the topic of service ceilings as well as ramifications
of what can occur at this elevation. Do the same and find
out about airframe distortion, pressure loss and break-ups.
It's aviation 101, not Coke can 101. You can stand on an
upright egg collection. You can stand on a coke can. Your
anologys are laughable. Spacecraft are made different
than Cessnas.

Babbling nonsense.

Read for content. Air density and cooling aren't relevant
to a sealed unit.

Cooling is especially relevant for heat producing sealed units.

Are you sure you aren't around 12 years old?

--
Jim Pennino

Er, I'm trying to go do something else and rushing
answers.

Clarification: With regard to the cooling of a sealed brushless
motor, your concerns and comments about air density are
basically irrelevant. They cool differently than open typical
electric motors that rely on air circulation.

Better?

Allrighty then.

---
Mark

ps. If you think I'm 12 then why are you debating
with a child. And why is this child kicking your...
forget it. Think about these conversations next
May when you look at the car lot.

Mark wrote:

Clarification: With regard to the cooling of a sealed brushless
motor, your concerns and comments about air density are
basically irrelevant. They cool differently than open typical
electric motors that rely on air circulation.

Yeah, how is that, magic?

There are only two ways to cool any motor, and it doesn't matter whether
it is an ICE or electric.

You either put a bunch of pipes in the motor, run a fluid through them,
and dump the heat with a radiator that has air flowing through it or you
put cooling fins on the motor and that have air flowing over them.

And air at altitude may be cold, but it is also thin which means you have
to move a lot more air at altitude than sea level to get the same cooling.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 18, 6:55*pm, wrote:
Mark wrote:
Clarification: With regard to the cooling of a sealed brushless
motor, your concerns and comments about air density are
basically irrelevant. They cool differently than open typical
electric motors that rely on air circulation.

Yeah, how is that, magic?

There are only two ways to cool any motor, and it doesn't matter whether
it is an ICE or electric.

You either put a bunch of pipes in the motor, run a fluid through them,
and dump the heat with a radiator that has air flowing through it or you
put cooling fins on the motor and that have air flowing over them.

And air at altitude may be cold, but it is also thin which means you have
to move a lot more air at altitude than sea level to get the same cooling..

--
Jim Pennino

Correct. The higher you go, the harder it is to displace the heat.
I believe the topic of this post is..."How high *can* you go?"

This doesn't mean you cannot have electric airplanes, or that
at 20,000 ft. they aren't superior to internal combustion.

You say, "You'll play hell keeping it cool". Well, yes and no.
At 95,000ft...it very well may be impossible. IMHO, the motor at any
elevation needs to be cooled with circulating glycol through a
patented design that runs through the center. At what elevation
your radiator ceases to displace heat...I don't know.

So yes, the elevation is relevant to cooling as you said, but
I am asserting that for GA purposes between AGL and
20,000 ft., you won't "play hell keeping it cool". On the
other hand, try leaving the troposphere and you might
better pack dry ice.

---
Mark

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 22:08:59 -0000, wrote:

Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I studied the topic of service ceilings as well as ramifications
of what can occur at this elevation. Do the same and find
out about airframe distortion, pressure loss and break-ups.
It's aviation 101, not Coke can 101. You can stand on an
upright egg collection. You can stand on a coke can. Your
anologys are laughable. Spacecraft are made different
than Cessnas.

Babbling nonsense.

Read for content. Air density and cooling aren't relevant
to a sealed unit.

Cooling is especially relevant for heat producing sealed units.

Are you sure you aren't around 12 years old?

Are you sure you aren't 13? I have always wanted to blow an older boy.

Mark "Deep Throat"