Future Club Training Gliders

On Sep 18, 11:50*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
On Sep 18, 3:04*am, "

wrote:
A 2-33 should be landed just like any other "nose dragger
glider" (G-103 II or ASK 21 etc)

Really? *The correct landing procedure for a 2-33 (and Blanik) is a
recipe for high energy landings in K-21s or G-103s (or worse case, a
high sink rate bounced landing leading to the infamous "galloping
Grob"!). *I hope you have a long runway and a big budget for brake
pads!


Kirk

Please explain further........how is the correct landing procedure for
a 2-33 going to result in a high energy landing in a Grob?

IMHO....the correct landing procedure for a 2-33 (low energy, slow
speed, nose high, tail low, etc) will result in a similar low energy
landing in a Grob..........this would be a short runway landing, with
little or no need for brakes......

Cookie

On Sep 18, 7:52*pm, "
wrote:
On Sep 18, 11:50*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

On Sep 18, 3:04*am, "

wrote:
A 2-33 should be landed just like any other "nose dragger
glider" (G-103 II or ASK 21 etc)

Really? *The correct landing procedure for a 2-33 (and Blanik) is a
recipe for high energy landings in K-21s or G-103s (or worse case, a
high sink rate bounced landing leading to the infamous "galloping
Grob"!). *I hope you have a long runway and a big budget for brake
pads!

Kirk

Please explain further........how is the correct landing procedure for
a 2-33 going to result in a high energy landing in a Grob?

IMHO....the correct landing procedure for a 2-33 (low energy, slow
speed, nose high, tail low, etc) will result in a similar low energy
landing in a Grob..........this would be a short runway landing, with
little or no need for brakes......

Cookie

That is exactly correct.

However, regardless of instructor efforts to prevent it, students will
learn on their own a 2-33 stops really well with the skid on the
runway and the more weight on the skid, the faster it stops. Trying
to teach a student not to use this very useful trick is fruitless.

This primary learning will transfer to a Grob and other gliders where
it puts the new pilot at risk of a damaging accident. When a new
pilot really, really needs to stop, it's going to be hard for him not
to push the nose down.

On Sep 20, 2:26*am, bildan wrote:
This primary learning will transfer to a Grob and other gliders where
it puts the new pilot at risk of a damaging accident. *When a new
pilot really, really needs to stop, it's going to be hard for him not
to push the nose down.

When you really really need to stop, pushing the nose down hard works
well on anything that doesn't have a nose wheel. We were taught to do
it in an emergency in the Blanik L13 and I've seen it done in a Grob.

By "really really need to stop" I mean that you're going to die or be
seriously injured if you don't stop and you don't care about damaging
the nose skin and structure or slamming the tail back down afterwards.

Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here on
Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on either
side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my instructors
mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/glid...-alive-3785681
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4144...g-and-a-prayer
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10674749

In article 751a02b3-2be7-490a-a3e2-ca1f9b850701
@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com, says...

On Sep 20, 2:26*am, bildan wrote:
This primary learning will transfer to a Grob and other gliders where
it puts the new pilot at risk of a damaging accident. *When a new
pilot really, really needs to stop, it's going to be hard for him not
to push the nose down.

When you really really need to stop, pushing the nose down hard works
well on anything that doesn't have a nose wheel. We were taught to do
it in an emergency in the Blanik L13 and I've seen it done in a Grob.

By "really really need to stop" I mean that you're going to die or be
seriously injured if you don't stop and you don't care about damaging
the nose skin and structure or slamming the tail back down afterwards.

Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here on
Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on either
side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my instructors
mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/glid...-alive-3785681
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4144...g-and-a-prayer
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10674749

stuff.co.nz! - they just *have* to bring religion into it! Grrr

--
Duncan.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:57:15 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:


Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here on
Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on either
side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my instructors
mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

My cousin, who lives in Waikanae, said it was a turbulent, gusty day but
none of the reports mention the weather. How would you rate it?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Sep 20, 11:38*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:57:15 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here on
Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on either
side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my instructors
mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

My cousin, who lives in Waikanae, said it was a turbulent, gusty day but
none of the reports mention the weather. How would you rate it?

The entire country was covered by a massive storm centered to the
south of the South Island with strong westerly conditions covering the
whole 2000 km (north/south) of the country. If you could get high
somewhere it could well have been a record-setting day. Some
supermarkets and a stadium in Southland collapsed due to the weight of
snow on them. Around Auckland and Hamilton trees were coming down and
houses losing roofs and a lot of people lost electricity. In the
middle of the North Island there were a lot of slips on to roads.

It wasn't so bad around Wellington and was, fundamentally, a fine day,
but windy. I wasn't at the club but I'd expect that it was probably
gusting over 30 knots.

Those are mostly fairly benign conditions at Paraparaumu with smooth
air coming off the ocean and on to the hills 3 or 4 km inland, and the
sea cliffs further south. The only real problem is Kapiti Island, 5
km offshore, which produces wave which can either reinforce the ridge
lift or else dump on to it, and can also generate a fair bit of rotor
in semi-random places.

Even when the wave/rotor is dumping on to the ridge, you can generally
at least keep as high as the ridge, as in this video I shot on my
phone last December:

http://youtu.be/aLCSpVL35Tk

The ridge is at 1000-1200 ft and I could manage 1800 ft or so. I could
stay up but I couldn't get high enough to go anywhere.

Then you've got to make it 3 km back to the field (near the sea,
towards the right hand end of the island in this video) which is not
very far, even in sink.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:18:04 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Sep 20, 11:38Â*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:57:15 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here
on Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on
either side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my
instructors mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

My cousin, who lives in Waikanae, said it was a turbulent, gusty day
but none of the reports mention the weather. How would you rate it?

The entire country was covered by a massive storm centered to the south
of the South Island with strong westerly conditions covering the whole
2000 km (north/south) of the country. If you could get high somewhere it
could well have been a record-setting day. Some supermarkets and a
stadium in Southland collapsed due to the weight of snow on them. Around
Auckland and Hamilton trees were coming down and houses losing roofs and
a lot of people lost electricity. In the middle of the North Island
there were a lot of slips on to roads.

It wasn't so bad around Wellington and was, fundamentally, a fine day,
but windy. I wasn't at the club but I'd expect that it was probably
gusting over 30 knots.

Those are mostly fairly benign conditions at Paraparaumu with smooth air
coming off the ocean and on to the hills 3 or 4 km inland, and the sea
cliffs further south. The only real problem is Kapiti Island, 5 km
offshore, which produces wave which can either reinforce the ridge lift
or else dump on to it, and can also generate a fair bit of rotor in
semi-random places.

Thanks for the expansion.

BTW, I see that the club sold off Golf Zulu. When did that happen?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Sep 21, 10:05*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
BTW, I see that the club sold off Golf Zulu. When did that happen?

That happened about three years ago when a pilot visiting from the UK
wrote it off in a river bed.

On 20/09/2010 15:57, Bruce Hoult wrote:

Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here on
Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on either
side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my instructors
mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/glid...-alive-3785681
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4144...g-and-a-prayer
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10674749

I love tvnz's careful description:
"The plane landed beside St Patrick's School on
Tongariro Street, at the bus stop, near a give way sign."

He appears to have knocked over the No Parking sign. That won't stop
him getting booked, though. It's clearly not parked legally!

GC

On Sep 20, 5:57*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
Incidentally, someone landed their Cirrus on a suburban street here on
Sunday morning. They reportedly deliberately used the poles on either
side of a pedestrian crossing to slow down. I believe my instructors
mentioned tree trunks in this context, but whatever...

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/glid...ectid=10674749

Another article a couple of days later:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...was-his-second