General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry

"Bob McKellar" wrote

Where in that hierarchy would graduate students fall?

Depends on whether they were commissioned or not.

"ArtKramr" wrote

His father flew combat in WW II, The sonlflew combat nowhere and went
AWOL from his national guard unit and got away with it. If he can wear the
Nomex suit, anyone can.

Show me the AWOL charges, boy. I understand he made up for missed duty
by doing 37 days straight. Doesn't sound like an AWOL case I ever heard of, boy.

Thousands of men and women became fighter/interceptor pilots in the U.S. Air Force,
and never flew combat. President Bush can compare his flight log flying single-place
jet aircraft to your log as a crew-dog any day. Don't get so uppity boy.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
snip


As for Clark, wait for more high ranking officers to come forward and
join former CJCS Hugh Shelton with their comments on Clark's careerism
and "integrity." There's no real problem with the lefties accepting
him, he's the designated hitter for the former President and his
aspiring wife.

LTG (ret) Paul Funk has already come forward--in fact, IIRC his
less-than-laudatory review of Clark came out before Hugh Shelton's did. In
the same article (again, IIRC, it was written by that fellow Galloway who
has a pretty good rep on the military side) a number of other former senior
officers had nothing good to say about him, but were unwilling to go public
until/unless he were to start winning. One of them said if that happens
he'll volunteer to follow Clark to every campaign location to "set the
record straight", so to speak.


This is going to get really rough before its over.

I believe you may be right.

Brooks


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
In May 1972, the Boston Phoenix reported that Kerry had ...

Could we please stick to military aviation and can the OT political
crap?

Nah, this is a good thread. We are talking about the military record
of a war veteran who if elected president will be the commander in
chief, of the air force as well as other branches.

Furthermore, he's a pilot.

I'm interested in Kerry, and I'm interested in what he did with his
medals.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com


I certainly do not want, in any way, shape, or form, to denigrate the
service performed by the "Brown Water Navy" in Viet Nam. Pushing
patrol boats up and down the Mekong delta, from all accounts, was not
exactly healthy.

That being said, the concept that Kerry thinks he knows about about
aircraft carriers "I know a little something about aircraft carriers
for real" (from the E. Clift article) is so laughable it is pathetic.
Kerry didn't serve on a carrier, he served in patrol boats. Dan
points out, and I've no reason to doubt him, that Kerry is a pilot.
Okay, fine, but let's not translate that into his being a naval
aviator/carrier operator. In Kerry's case the equation: --Naval
Officer + pilot = Naval Aviator = knowledge of aircraft carriers-- is
a non starter. I'm not a naval aviator, don't claim to be, but I live
with a retired naval aviator, WWII fighter pilot & ace, post WWII
squadron commander, air group commander, aircraft carrier commander, &
carrier division commander - who really does know a little something
about aircraft carriers - and when he hears this Kerry "I know a
little something about aircraft carriers for real" business and he
just laughs & shakes his head.

Rich

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 2/1/04 7:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: wb9Tb.15597$Q_4.8597@okepread03

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote
Ed Rasimus wrote:
Further, I really don't like Senator Kerry's comments regarding the
President and his qualifications to welcome home the troops he
commands by flying aboard a carrier. George W. Bush was both a
commissioned officer (like Kerry) and a fully qualified AF fighter
pilot (unlike Kerry.) No president we've ever had is more qualified to
don the Nomex and carry a helmet.


His father?

Keep up man, keep up!




His father flew combat in WW II, The sonlflew combat nowhere and went AWOL from
his national guard unit and got away with it. If he can wear the Nomex suit,
anyone can.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"S. Sampson" wrote:
"ArtKramr" wrote

His father flew combat in WW II, The sonlflew combat nowhere and went
AWOL from his national guard unit and got away with it. If he can wear the
Nomex suit, anyone can.

Show me the AWOL charges, boy. I understand he made up for missed duty
by doing 37 days straight. Doesn't sound like an AWOL case I ever heard of, boy.

Damn straight.

Is any of this getting through that little blue bonnet of yours, boy?

Thousands of men and women became fighter/interceptor pilots in the U.S. Air Force,
and never flew combat. President Bush can compare his flight log flying single-place
jet aircraft to your log as a crew-dog any day. Don't get so uppity boy.

Listen up son, and pay attention boy. How ya' ever gonna learn
anything if you always got your head in a book?

-Foghorn Leghorn

LTG (ret) Paul Funk has already come forward--in fact, IIRC his
less-than-laudatory review of Clark came out before Hugh Shelton's did. In
the same article (again, IIRC, it was written by that fellow Galloway who
has a pretty good rep on the military side) a number of other former senior
officers had nothing good to say about him, but were unwilling to go public
until/unless he were to start winning. One of them said if that happens
he'll volunteer to follow Clark to every campaign location to "set the
record straight", so to speak.

Years ago, Col. David H. Hackworth, the retired military man turned political
pundit, called Clark the "Perfumed Prince" because he was convinced Clark
screwed up in Kosovo. When Clark joined the Democratic presidential candidates,
Hackworth's quote got more play than a Beach Boys single in the 1970s. Then
Hackworth gave his real assessment of Clark after interviewing the general for
three hours.
"He is insightful, he has his act together, he understands what makes national
security tick-and he thinks on his feet somewhere around Mach 3. No big
surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point, which puts him
in the supersmart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell Taylor.
Clark was so brilliant, he was whisked off to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and
didn't get his boots into the Vietnam mud until well after his 1966 West Point
class came close to achieving the academy record for the most Purple Hearts in
any one war. When he finally got there, he took over a 1st Infantry Division
rifle company and was badly wounded.
Lt. Gen. James Hollingsworth, one of our Army's most distinguished war heroes,
says: "Clark took a burst of AK fire, but didn't stop fighting. He stayed on
the field 'til his mission was accomplished and his boys were safe. He was
awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart. And he earned 'em."
It took months for Clark to get back in shape. He had the perfect excuse, but
he didn't quit the Army to scale the corporate peaks as so many of our best and
brightest did back then. Instead, he took a demoralized company of short-timers
at Fort Knox who were suffering from a Vietnam hangover and made them the best
on post-a major challenge in 1970 when our Army was teetering on the edge of
anarchy. Then he stuck around to become one of the young Turks who forged the
Green Machine into the magnificent sword Norman Schwarzkopf swung so skillfully
during Round One of the Gulf War.
I asked Clark why he didn't turn in his bloody soldier suit for Armani and the
big civvy dough that was definitely his for the asking. His response: "I wanted
to serve my country."
He says he now wants to lead America out of the darkness, shorten what promises
to be the longest and nastiest war in our history and restore our eroding
prestige around the world. For sure, he'll be strong on defense. But with his
high moral standards and because he knows where and how the game's played,
there will probably be zero tolerance for either Pentagon porking or two-bit
shenanigans.
No doubt he's made his share of enemies. He doesn't suffer fools easily and
wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even
cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of
dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.
Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when
I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince."
Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was
wrong-the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen,
U.S. SecDef at the time.
At the interview, Clark came along without the standard platoon of handlers and
treated the little folks who poured the coffee and served the bacon and eggs
with exactly the same respect and consideration he gave the biggies in the
dining room like my colleague Larry King and Bob Tisch, the Regency Hotel's
owner. An appealing common touch.
But if he wins the election, don't expect an Andrew Jackson field-soldier type.
Clark's an intellectual, and his military career is more like Ike's- that of a
staff guy and a brilliant high-level commander. Can he make tough decisions?
Bet on it. Just like Ike did during his eight hard but prosperous years as
president."

Subject: General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry
From: (Tom Cervo)
Date: 2/1/04 7:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Years ago, Col. David H. Hackworth, the retired military man turned political
pundit, called Clark the "Perfumed Prince" because he was convinced Clark
screwed up in Kosovo. When Clark joined the Democratic presidential
candidates,
Hackworth's quote got more play than a Beach Boys single in the 1970s. Then
Hackworth gave his real assessment of Clark after interviewing the general
for
three hours.
"He is insightful, he has his act together, he understands what makes
national
security tick-and he thinks on his feet somewhere around Mach 3. No big
surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point, which puts
him
in the supersmart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell
Taylor.
Clark was so brilliant, he was whisked off to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and
didn't get his boots into the Vietnam mud until well after his 1966 West
Point
class came close to achieving the academy record for the most Purple Hearts
in
any one war. When he finally got there, he took over a 1st Infantry Division
rifle company and was badly wounded.
Lt. Gen. James Hollingsworth, one of our Army's most distinguished war
heroes,
says: "Clark took a burst of AK fire, but didn't stop fighting. He stayed on
the field 'til his mission was accomplished and his boys were safe. He was
awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart. And he earned 'em."
It took months for Clark to get back in shape. He had the perfect excuse, but
he didn't quit the Army to scale the corporate peaks as so many of our best
and
brightest did back then. Instead, he took a demoralized company of
short-timers
at Fort Knox who were suffering from a Vietnam hangover and made them the
best
on post-a major challenge in 1970 when our Army was teetering on the edge of
anarchy. Then he stuck around to become one of the young Turks who forged the
Green Machine into the magnificent sword Norman Schwarzkopf swung so
skillfully
during Round One of the Gulf War.
I asked Clark why he didn't turn in his bloody soldier suit for Armani and
the
big civvy dough that was definitely his for the asking. His response: "I
wanted
to serve my country."
He says he now wants to lead America out of the darkness, shorten what
promises
to be the longest and nastiest war in our history and restore our eroding
prestige around the world. For sure, he'll be strong on defense. But with his
high moral standards and because he knows where and how the game's played,
there will probably be zero tolerance for either Pentagon porking or two-bit
shenanigans.
No doubt he's made his share of enemies. He doesn't suffer fools easily and
wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even
cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of
dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.
Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign
when
I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince."
Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was
wrong-the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen,
U.S. SecDef at the time.
At the interview, Clark came along without the standard platoon of handlers
and
treated the little folks who poured the coffee and served the bacon and eggs
with exactly the same respect and consideration he gave the biggies in the
dining room like my colleague Larry King and Bob Tisch, the Regency Hotel's
owner. An appealing common touch.
But if he wins the election, don't expect an Andrew Jackson field-soldier
type.
Clark's an intellectual, and his military career is more like Ike's- that of
a
staff guy and a brilliant high-level commander. Can he make tough decisions?
Bet on it. Just like Ike did during his eight hard but prosperous years as
president."


Good post.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:
(Tom Cervo) wrote:

Years ago, Col. David H. Hackworth, the retired military man turned political
pundit, called Clark the "Perfumed Prince" because he was convinced Clark
screwed up in Kosovo. When Clark joined the Democratic presidential
candidates,
Hackworth's quote got more play than a Beach Boys single in the 1970s. Then
Hackworth gave his real assessment of Clark after interviewing the general
for
three hours.
"He is insightful, he has his act together, he understands what makes
national
security tick-and he thinks on his feet somewhere around Mach 3. No big
surprise, since he graduated first in his class from West Point, which puts
him
in the supersmart set with Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur and Maxwell
Taylor.
Clark was so brilliant, he was whisked off to Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and
didn't get his boots into the Vietnam mud until well after his 1966 West
Point
class came close to achieving the academy record for the most Purple Hearts
in
any one war. When he finally got there, he took over a 1st Infantry Division
rifle company and was badly wounded.
Lt. Gen. James Hollingsworth, one of our Army's most distinguished war
heroes,
says: "Clark took a burst of AK fire, but didn't stop fighting. He stayed on
the field 'til his mission was accomplished and his boys were safe. He was
awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart. And he earned 'em."
It took months for Clark to get back in shape. He had the perfect excuse, but
he didn't quit the Army to scale the corporate peaks as so many of our best
and
brightest did back then. Instead, he took a demoralized company of
short-timers
at Fort Knox who were suffering from a Vietnam hangover and made them the
best
on post-a major challenge in 1970 when our Army was teetering on the edge of
anarchy. Then he stuck around to become one of the young Turks who forged the
Green Machine into the magnificent sword Norman Schwarzkopf swung so
skillfully
during Round One of the Gulf War.
I asked Clark why he didn't turn in his bloody soldier suit for Armani and
the
big civvy dough that was definitely his for the asking. His response: "I
wanted
to serve my country."
He says he now wants to lead America out of the darkness, shorten what
promises
to be the longest and nastiest war in our history and restore our eroding
prestige around the world. For sure, he'll be strong on defense. But with his
high moral standards and because he knows where and how the game's played,
there will probably be zero tolerance for either Pentagon porking or two-bit
shenanigans.
No doubt he's made his share of enemies. He doesn't suffer fools easily and
wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even
cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of
dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.
Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign
when
I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince."
Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was
wrong-the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen,
U.S. SecDef at the time.
At the interview, Clark came along without the standard platoon of handlers
and
treated the little folks who poured the coffee and served the bacon and eggs
with exactly the same respect and consideration he gave the biggies in the
dining room like my colleague Larry King and Bob Tisch, the Regency Hotel's
owner. An appealing common touch.
But if he wins the election, don't expect an Andrew Jackson field-soldier
type.
Clark's an intellectual, and his military career is more like Ike's- that of
a
staff guy and a brilliant high-level commander. Can he make tough decisions?
Bet on it. Just like Ike did during his eight hard but prosperous years as
president."

Good post.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

After scrolling down thru 100 lines ot text and a lousy "Good post" is
all you have to add? You, sir, are truly the eptiome of AOLdom. And
nothing's worse than ANY sort of praise or compliment from the likes
of YOU!

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: Mike Marron


Good post.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

After scrolling down thru 100 lines ot text and a lousy "Good post" is
all you have to add? You, sir, are truly the eptiome of AOLdom. And
nothing's worse than ANY sort of praise or compliment from the likes
of YOU!

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Geeze, marron, lay off the guy. It is possible to disagree with someone without
being nasty about it.

"Good post" is elegant in its simplicity.
Would you rather he wrote a term paper in response?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired