VFR Practise Approaches

writes:

Actually he had it right with getting the clearance in Bravo in his
original post. He just has it flat out wrong on "do whatever you want
absent ATC instruction" after that bravo entry clearance.

I'm afraid I'm right about that, too. Within the context of applicable
regulations, you can do what you want. You still have to stay at proper VFR
altitudes, remain below 250 KIAS below 10,000 feet, and so on, but you are not
constrained otherwise in route, altitude, or speed, UNLESS ATC imposes a
constraint.

If ATC needs to impose restrictions to make sure that you don't interfere with
other traffic, then rest assured, they most certainly will. If no
restrictions are imposed, that is because ATC doesn't see you as a potential
conflict for nearby traffic for the moment.

As elsewhere under VFR, navigation is at your discretion unless you are told
otherwise.

Can you imagine if everybody did what they wanted in Bravo? I
wouldn't.

No need to imagine it, as it already happens every day. Aircraft under VFR
that have not been constrained by ATC are doing exactly what they want. They
have no choice, since the pilot is the navigator and has full freedom of
action and responsibility therefore in the absence of any ATC instructions.

Suppose I want to transit a Class B under VFR to save time. All I have to do
is call up ATC before entering the airspace, get a clearance, and go. ATC may
well ask my intentions, and I'll explain that I want a transition to the
south. If there are no obvious traffic issues, ATC may simply give me a squawk
code and let me go. It's up to me to decide how to do the transition. Prudence
and courtesy dictate that I try to cross the Class B as quickly and
efficiently as possible, but no regulation requires this. I can fly straight
through, or I can decide to turn 45 degrees to head for a VOR at some point. I
can fly at 4500 feet or 6500 feet, or whatever is appropriate for my direction
of flight. I don't need ATC's approval, and there are no particular
restrictions on what I may do that I wouldn't already have outside the Class
B.

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Mxsmanic wrote:

Suppose I want to transit a Class B under VFR to save time. All I have to do
is call up ATC before entering the airspace, get a clearance, and go.

You miss my point yet again, so I'll speel it out (yet again).

You assume you GET the clearance. If ATC does not grant you
your clearance into Class B, nor even responds to your call for Class B
clearance, you will not get into Class B. ATC does *NOT* have to
explicitly state that you remain outside of Class B airspace for you to
remain outside of Class B airspace.

7-9-2.a does supply the phraseology used to keep you outside of
Class Bravo airspace, but that doesn't mean that they must *answer your
initial call*. If they don't get to answering your call, that would be
just as much denial of entry into Class B as it would to hear "REMAIN
OUTSIDE OF CLASS BRAVO AIRSPACE."

My point the entire time is that ATC does not have to tell you
to remain outside of it for you to remain outside of it. In other
words, not responding to you at all is implicit denial of entry into
Class B.

What things can you NOT do in Class B in the absence of ATC restrictions that
you would be able to do outside the Class B? Be sure to cite the
regulation(s) that backs up your statement.

Simple. Fly your plane. Regulations? 7-9-2.a. You did not get
your Class Bravo clearance. AIM 3-2-3.e. You did not get your Class
Bravo clearance.

I am not saying that ATC won't ALWAYS tell you to remain
outside of Class B, but that with the way the .65T is worded, they
DON'T always have to tell you that, either. If you don't hear the magic
words, you don't get in. If you hear "remain outside of Class Bravo
airspace", or don't hear anything from them at all, you don't get in.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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Forgot to mention something here. My point, Anthony, is that
you go into this with the assumption that you will hear a response back
from ATC. If you don't hear a response back from ATC at all, that is
just as much crucial to your denial of Class B entry as hearing the
words "remain outside of Class Bravo airspace." In short, don't assume
that you will hear anything back, because if you don't, your Class B
plans are shot.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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On Oct 3, 12:22*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

of flight. I don't need ATC's approval,
B.

WRONG. But that's ok, I'm not the delusional one here.

I fly the real world...... and gave very specific situations

and there are no particular
restrictions on what I may do that I wouldn't already have outside
the Class

You CONTINUE TO PRETEND that you fly in the real world and lie about
your real world experiences by NOT ANSWERING MY DIRECT QUESTIONS.

writes:

WRONG.

Cite the supporting FAR.

On Oct 3, 2:57*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
WRONG.

Cite the supporting FAR.

NO!

LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN, HOW MANY HOURS HAVE YOU SPENT IN BRAVO AS PIC IN
A REAL PLANE?????????

writes:

NO!

Because there is no FAR that supports your assertion.

LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN, HOW MANY HOURS HAVE YOU SPENT IN BRAVO AS PIC IN
A REAL PLANE?????????

You don't have to be a PIC in a real plane to read and understand Federal air
regulations. But if you are a PIC in a real plane, you had better read and
understand them.

On Oct 4, 9:54*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

You don't have to be a PIC in a real plane to read and understand Federal air
regulations. *But if you are a PIC in a real plane, you had better read and
understand them.

WHICH OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE REAL WORLD OF FLYING!!!!!

AIM..................

writes:

AIM..................

The AIM is not the FARs, as you may one day discover the hard way.

On Oct 4, 9:54*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN, HOW MANY HOURS HAVE YOU SPENT IN BRAVO AS PIC IN
A REAL PLANE?????????

You don't have to be a PIC in a real plane to read and understand Federal air
regulations. *

DOESN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION. WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO MY QUESTION????