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#1
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In article ,
"Flash60601" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , CaveLamb wrote: Alan Baker wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , CaveLamb wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , TonyW wrote: On 10/6/2010 2:43 AM, wrote: http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...ers-23-pics-1- vid eo .h tm l Karl Not the first, it was done 30 years ago, Google Gossamer Albatross. GA was prop-driven, not an ornithopter (thrust from wing flapping). This one doesn't seem to have enough power to take off on its own, but enough to barely maintain level flight. Mildly creepy looking under weigh; looks like a sailplane with severe low-frequency flutter. This one was not an ornithopter either... It just LOOKS like one... How much flapping do you have to do before it's an ornithopter? Not being able to take off under its own power doesn't help, mind. Oh, I'd guess - enough for the wings to actually FLAP rather than just FLEX. To your mind, what would make it flapping rather than flexing? No, I'm not interested in a debate on this. Pick your pony - believe what you want... So... ...you're just interested in making unsupported pronouncements? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg Alan, I'll be pleased to hear what you have to say on this: 1. At what speed and altitude did the craft release from the auto-tow?. 2.. How far and how long did it fly under its own power until it was no longer able to maintain that altitude and airspeed? I don't know the answer to either of them... ....but I'm betting large that CaveLamb doesn't know the answer either. And simply declaring it's not flapping and the refusing to define his terms... Come on. Would you think that those two questions are pertinent to the discussion? Of course they're pertinent. I don't know how you want to qualify successful flight, but it's pretty clearly an ornithopter... ....which is the point I was trying to make. But if you're interested in its success, you might want to read this: 'The "Snowbird" performed its record-breaking flight on August 2 at the Great Lakes Gliding Club in Tottenham, Ont., witnessed by the vice-president (Canada) of the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), the world-governing body for air sports and aeronautical world records. The official record claim was filed this month, and the FAI is expected to confirm the ornithopter's world record at its meeting in October.' http://www.physorg.com/news204386550.html It goes on: 'For centuries engineers have attempted such a feat, ever since Leonardo da Vinci sketched the first human-powered ornithopter in 1485. But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour.' 'sustained both altitude and airspeed' seems to be fairly definitive. Also, have you any connection with this project at all? (You know, "Disclaimer", as it were). Nope. No connection of any kind. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#2
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The op gave us this link...
http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html |
#3
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In article ,
CaveLamb wrote: The op gave us this link... http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html Yes. That is the human powered machine. Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html It's not the same, because the poster to whom I was replying was asking about the engine powered ornithopter that had definitely taken off from a standing start. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#4
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On 10/8/2010 7:37 AM, CaveLamb wrote:
The op gave us this link... http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...s-1-video.html Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown if not towed... The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... Tony |
#5
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In article ,
TonyW wrote: On 10/8/2010 7:37 AM, CaveLamb wrote: The op gave us this link... http://acidcow.com/pics/13751-made-b...cs-1-video.htm l Which is NOT the same machine as this... http://www.ornithopter.net/index_e.html But start he http://www.ornithopter.net/MediaGallery/Videos/index_e.html I went back and looked at all the pix and video and I think it's nothing more than a flapping glider. I seriously doubt it would have ever flown if not towed... Apparently, the FAI thinks differently. http://www.physorg.com/news204386550.html "But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour." The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not... ....but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-) -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#6
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On 10/8/2010 2:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
"But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour." I don't think that's far or long enough to prove anything. A light breeze of a headwind would have done the same. The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not... ...but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-) That's one thing we can agree on. BTW, I might have bought human powered if the had towed it with a rope pulled by the track team but then again, I still think it's a flapping glider... Tony |
#7
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In article ,
TonyW wrote: On 10/8/2010 2:16 PM, Alan Baker wrote: "But under the power and piloting of Todd Reichert, an Engineering PhD candidate at the University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies (UTIAS), the wing-flapping device sustained both altitude and airspeed for 19.3 seconds, and covered a distance of 145 metres at an average speed of 25.6 kilometres per hour." I don't think that's far or long enough to prove anything. A light breeze of a headwind would have done the same. Alas, you are not the arbiter of what is and what is not... ...flight. :-) The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... I don't know whether the ability has any practical use or not... ...but then, I'm betting that you don't either... :-) That's one thing we can agree on. BTW, I might have bought human powered if the had towed it with a rope pulled by the track team but then again, I still think it's a flapping glider... You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and altitude... ....that seems like flight to me. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
#8
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![]() "Alan Baker" wrote You can think whatever you like, but if it can maintain airspeed and altitude... ...that seems like flight to me. Alan; I gotta' ask; what dog do you have in this fight? Why do you argue your point so strongly, to the point of putting down people that have an opinion that differs from yours? This seems to be very much a discussion of opinion on a subject You opining one point of view holds no more weight than Lamb or someone else spouting their opinion, to me. It isn't as if this is an open and shut case. They did not make a flight with the basic definition of taking off, maintaining flight, and returning to a place with the same elevation. Even early definitions of powered flight with the Wright Brothers had some or all of these basic definitions. Yes, they seem to have flown by human power, but only with help to start the flight. The flapping shown is a type that I have never seen a bird use. All of the birds have their wings hinged where they attach to their bodies and these hinges allow the wing to pivot up and down to initiate flight, and they usually have a joint out further on their wing that also hinges for additional power and control... but this man powered creation has none of those characteristics. Seems to me that this whole thing was supposed to be imitating nature's animals methods of flying. That, it does not do, in my opinion. Seems like it is a way to "cheat" the imitation of flapping creature's flying methodology. Please note that this has been expressed as my opinion, and I did not put anyone else "down" as I presented it, as all civil discussions should strive to do. Jim in NC |
#9
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![]() "TonyW" wrote in message ... The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... Tony I kinda think there were some folks in Dayton saying the same thing about a hundren and ten or so years ago. Who knows what will come of this. There are bound to be some side-benefits. .... Eventually. Flash Flash |
#10
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In article ,
"Flash60601" wrote: "TonyW" wrote in message ... The engine powered one is a great study of what people do with too much time and money on their hands... Tony I kinda think there were some folks in Dayton saying the same thing about a hundren and ten or so years ago. Who knows what will come of this. There are bound to be some side-benefits. ... Eventually. Flash Flash And the Wright's first attempts gained airspeed by sliding down a track on a hill... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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