General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry

From: "George Z. Bush"





Without nit picking too much, why don't we use the past tense in talking
about
the ratings held by the Bush family. Daddy's expired when he was demobilized
at
the end of WWII, and Junior's expired when he deliberately failed to update
his
flight physical.

I agree about using the past tense.
Now I know you strongly dislike Bush 2, but can you prove he "deliberately
failed to update his flight physical?"

There is enough to dislike about any president without inventing things.


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:57:32 -0800, "David Pugh"
-cay wrote:

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .
Whether his medals or someone else's, the issue is not the ownership,
but the oath--to protect and defend. To obey the lawful orders.
Enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. These are phrases of meaning and relate
to a commissioned officer, who never unless stripped of the rank is
anything less, has an obligation to the President he serves and the
warriors still in the fray. To undermine the support for half a
million fighting men still in harm's way by leading protests against
the duly elected government of his country--that's the sin.

So, what is the proper course of conduct for an officer who truely believes
the war is a mistake and that the best course of action is to withdraw as
soon as possible? If that is the case, then undermining support for the war
does not seem to be entirely inappropriate (provided it is a last resort and
care is taken to avoid giving aiding the enemy -- ala Jane Fonda).

Resignation of his/her commission is the start. Then removal of the
uniform. Finally, a commitment to restrict the protest to the TRUTH.

Much has been written about the Kerry statements in his senate
testimony and public appearances on behalf of VVAW regarding
atrocities, etc. which has been since proven false.

Once one has done that, there really is no going back and wrapping
oneself in the flag over honorable service. If the war was as evil as
he testified, then he was right in protesting and apologizing for his
service in such an evil endeavor. But, now he seems to seek approval
for his actions, which were in support of an illegal, immoral war.
Seem a bit hypocritical?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

from: "Gord Beaman" (

(B2431) wrote:

From: Mike Marron


Good post.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

After scrolling down thru 100 lines ot text and a lousy "Good post" is
all you have to add? You, sir, are truly the eptiome of AOLdom. And
nothing's worse than ANY sort of praise or compliment from the likes
of YOU!

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Geeze, marron, lay off the guy. It is possible to disagree with someone
without
being nasty about it.

"Good post" is elegant in its simplicity.
Would you rather he wrote a term paper in response?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Exactly...you're about 'this' close to qualifying for your
windbag certificate maroon.
--

-Gord.

Gee Gord, how do I get one of those?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Gord wrote:
Exactly...you're about 'this' close to qualifying for your
windbag certificate maroon.

Dan asked:
Gee Gord, how do I get one of those?

Dan! Don't you remember rule no 2? Never volunteer?

oxmoron1

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:10:05 -0500, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Both, however, are military rated pilots. Which places them
considerably above two stripe enlisted journalist assistants with
curtailed combat tours and personal body-guards in terms of their
military service.

Without nit picking too much, why don't we use the past tense in talking
about
the ratings held by the Bush family. Daddy's expired when he was demobilized
at
the end of WWII, and Junior's expired when he deliberately failed to update
his
flight physical. Just one small difference.

Don't know about yours, but my wings don't expire, whether I get a
physical or not. Neither does my similar, but not as highly valued FAA
license. They are lifetime awards. The currency of a flight physical
merely enables me to exercise the privileges. No expirations.

Gee, as if I didn't know that. I didn't say that anybody's wings expired.....I
was talking about the recipient's entitlement to pilot military aircraft. Your
privileges expire when your physical expires.....but you already knew that, and
I'm surprised that you felt so insecure as to feel obliged to parse my meaning
when at least 99 of every 100 former military pilots could figure out exactly
what I was talking about from the words I used.

And while we're at it, I may have missed the early part of this exchange, but
I
thought we were talking about Kerry.....I didn't know he was a two stripe
enlisted journalist assistant. The stripes he had were the kind Navy
commissioned officers wear, I do believe.

We were talking, I thought about presidential candidates. And, we did
discuss the appropriateness of commissioned officers behavior
elsewhere in the thread. Yes, we've recognized repeatedly that Kerry
holds a commission. Surprised he didn't recall the appropriateness of
wearing ribbons with fatigue uniforms.

I can't speak to that but perhaps some memories are less perfect than others.

George Z.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:15:59 -0500, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 04:38:17 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:

My credibility can always be challenged on things I've said, but
please not on things you've misinterpreted.

Perhaps my misinterpretations, if that's what they are, can be attributed to
some of your misleading or imprecise verbiage. Sorry I hurt your feelings.

George Z.

"OXMORON1" wrote in message
...
George wrote:
I didn't notice such pious statements of patriotism when Clinton was
President.
Whether by civilians or military, or deserved or not, he was vilified and
besmirched on numerous occasions and nobody was muzzled because of it.

Turn about being fair play, I think those who happily dished it out in the
past
need to stop whining and learn how to take it.

I guess this means that we shouldn't refer to William Jefferson C as a
"C#@ksu&$er" since he was on the recieving end of the oral sex, but wait.. he
said he didn't have sex with that woman and since he is a politician, he can't
possibly tell an untruth.

Whatever he did was done between two consenting ADULTS, for which there was no
conviction of either of them in a criminal court. However immoral you might
consider those acts to have been, they did not result in the loss of a single
life of a member of our armed forces. Our present CIC has told a few whoppers
and wishes he could be absolved for the losses that ensued from them.

Jeeze people, none of this crap has nothing to do with aviation directly.

True, but if it shows up here, you can expect people to deal with it here.

Also remember, not one Russki bomber crossed the ADIZ in the Gulf of Mexico,
Texas area, without being intercepted during Bush's service in the TXANG.

oxmoron
I'm not too sure about the MS and LA areas.

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:04:07 -0500, "George Z. Bush"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .


Without nit picking too much, why don't we use the past tense in talking
about
the ratings held by the Bush family. Daddy's expired when he was demobilized
at the end of WWII, and Junior's expired when he deliberately failed to update
his flight physical. Just one small difference.

Don't know about yours, but my wings don't expire, whether I get a
physical or not. Neither does my similar, but not as highly valued FAA
license. They are lifetime awards. The currency of a flight physical
merely enables me to exercise the privileges. No expirations.

Gee, as if I didn't know that. I didn't say that anybody's wings expired.....I
was talking about the recipient's entitlement to pilot military aircraft. Your
privileges expire when your physical expires.....but you already knew that, and
I'm surprised that you felt so insecure as to feel obliged to parse my meaning
when at least 99 of every 100 former military pilots could figure out exactly
what I was talking about from the words I used.

I think your statement was "'past tense when talking about the ratings
held". My rating as a pilot hasn't expired, nor my FAA license. Your
statement was quite clear.

When you leave active duty, whether your physical is current or not,
you lose the "entitlement to pilot military aircraft". I can't walk
out to the flight line at Buckley, even with a current physical and
strap on an F-16.

I think the parsing is coming from your side. And, piloting military
aircraft isn't an "entitlement." It's an earned privilege.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

In message , Tom Cervo
writes
quoting Hackworth
Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when
I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince."
Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was
wrong-the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen,
U.S. SecDef at the time.

Right. Instead of leaving the Russians to enjoy a moment of glory before
finding themselves isolated and helpless, begging for food and water, we
should have shot our way into the airfield they'd just grabbed
(presumably shooting at them if they declined to leave peacefully? Or
was that going to be blamed on 'inefficient subordinates'?) This is
meant to be a wise, sensible and considered strategic decision?

It could be said that a wise commander would have considered the
possibility in advance and made some plans; or at least issued a warning
order covering the possibility..



"British timidity"? Just how many reservists was the US mobilising for a
ground offensive into Kosovo? I seem to recall the option being
categorically ruled out in the US... but we were getting ready to sign
Queen's Orders. (Out of interest, just why was Clark condemned to rely
on the UK's famously reluctant, fearful and combat-averse Parachute
Regiment, when he presumably had his choice of US and other NATO units
to dispatch?)


Sorry, but Hackworth is more interested in pandering to prejudice than
rational analysis. (For instance, his cheerful bluster about the
"useless" 9mm pistol and the "ineffective" M16 family... tell you what,
he can stand in front of me and I'll put a few rounds from either into
him; then he can tell me how "ineffective" they are)




--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"ArtKramr" wrote

Ribbons on fatigues??? Who the hell did that?

JFKerry: