PowerFLARM Mode S question

On Oct 21, 10:36*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
PowerFLARM is supposed to have the capability to detect and display
Mode S 1090ES position data on its display. *How many aircraft
(Airliners, bizjets?) currently send out 1090ES data?

This is for the US, of course.

Kirk
66

Very very few right now - if you can find better information I'd love
to know. UPS and a few others are working on equipping faster than
most.

There is very little reason for biz jets to equip. UPS and some others
can argue for playing with this to look at scheduling, future in-trail
separation benefits etc. and UPS has been a leader in ADS-B technology
for a while -- their Louisville airport hub has ADS-B ground station
deployment early for this reason. Biz jets and others there are very
few argument for being an early user.

The FAA recently set the pretty draconian requirement for every ADS-B
data-out installation to be done via an STC, and specifically forbade
337/field approval. So even with full TSO approval of the WAAS GPS and
ADS-B data-out device they require each installation type (airframe +
equipment combo) to have an STC. This is supposed to go away
eventually, but who knows when. This single requirement will stifle
ADS-B data-out deployment in GA aircraft. This impediment to ADS-B
data-out deployment is a double whammy in the USA since you need ADS-B
data-out for TIS-B and ADS-R to work effectively (not that the
infrastructure to do those are widely deployed yet they will be over
the next few years). You've got to scratch you head with the whole FAA
handling of ADS-B.

The only think I think we can say with confidence is that by 2020 most
aircraft that today have transponders will have ADS-B data-out. I
expect many of those will be 1090ES (but will see). Of course there is
some finite probability the wheels could come off the bus along the
way.

Darryl

On Oct 21, 11:30*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Oct 21, 10:36*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

PowerFLARM is supposed to have the capability to detect and display
Mode S 1090ES position data on its display. *How many aircraft
(Airliners, bizjets?) currently send out 1090ES data?

This is for the US, of course.

Kirk
66

Very very few right now - if you can find better information I'd love
to know. UPS and a few others are working on equipping faster than
most.

There is very little reason for biz jets to equip. UPS and some others
can argue for playing with this to look at scheduling, future in-trail
separation benefits etc. and UPS has been a leader in ADS-B technology
for a while -- their Louisville airport hub has ADS-B ground station
deployment early for this reason. Biz jets and others there are very
few argument for being an early user.

The FAA recently set the pretty draconian requirement for every ADS-B
data-out installation to be done via an STC, and specifically forbade
337/field approval. So even with full TSO approval of the WAAS GPS and
ADS-B data-out device they require each installation type (airframe +
equipment combo) to have an STC. This is supposed to go away
eventually, but who knows when. This single requirement will stifle
ADS-B data-out deployment in GA aircraft. This impediment to ADS-B
data-out deployment is a double whammy in the USA since you need ADS-B
data-out for TIS-B and ADS-R to work effectively (not that the
infrastructure to do those are widely deployed yet they will be over
the next few years). You've got to scratch you head with the whole FAA
handling of ADS-B.

The only think I think we can say with confidence is that by 2020 most
aircraft that today have transponders will have ADS-B data-out. I
expect many of those will be 1090ES (but will see). Of course there is
some finite probability the wheels could come off the bus along the
way.

Darryl

One thing I meant to include was that Europe has a 2015 mandate for
1090ES data-out for existing heavy aircraft (5,700kg) and a 2011
mandate for new aircraft (,5700kg) - so that likely gets many
international carriers to equip earlier than they otherwise might for
the USA alone. So that will drive some of the fleet flying in the USA
to be equipped. Not that it is likely the international B767/B777/B747
type airliners that we get near most of the time with gliders in the
USA.


Darryl

On Oct 21, 2:30*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Oct 21, 10:36*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

PowerFLARM is supposed to have the capability to detect and display
Mode S 1090ES position data on its display. *How many aircraft
(Airliners, bizjets?) currently send out 1090ES data?

This is for the US, of course.

Kirk
66

Very very few right now - if you can find better information I'd love
to know. UPS and a few others are working on equipping faster than
most.

There is very little reason for biz jets to equip. UPS and some others
can argue for playing with this to look at scheduling, future in-trail
separation benefits etc. and UPS has been a leader in ADS-B technology
for a while -- their Louisville airport hub has ADS-B ground station
deployment early for this reason. Biz jets and others there are very
few argument for being an early user.

The FAA recently set the pretty draconian requirement for every ADS-B
data-out installation to be done via an STC, and specifically forbade
337/field approval. So even with full TSO approval of the WAAS GPS and
ADS-B data-out device they require each installation type (airframe +
equipment combo) to have an STC. This is supposed to go away
eventually, but who knows when. This single requirement will stifle
ADS-B data-out deployment in GA aircraft. This impediment to ADS-B
data-out deployment is a double whammy in the USA since you need ADS-B
data-out for TIS-B and ADS-R to work effectively (not that the
infrastructure to do those are widely deployed yet they will be over
the next few years). You've got to scratch you head with the whole FAA
handling of ADS-B.

The only think I think we can say with confidence is that by 2020 most
aircraft that today have transponders will have ADS-B data-out. I
expect many of those will be 1090ES (but will see). Of course there is
some finite probability the wheels could come off the bus along the
way.

Darryl

Anyone seen this little jewel, seems there is a new report out from
the OIG that ADS-B will be far more expensive than the FAA has
projected... FAA Report Number AV-2011-002 issued 10-12-2010 see
dot.gov//library-item/5415

Like up to 30 for GA aircraft and 600K for airliners....

On Oct 21, 6:47*pm, ray conlon wrote:
On Oct 21, 2:30*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Oct 21, 10:36*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

PowerFLARM is supposed to have the capability to detect and display
Mode S 1090ES position data on its display. *How many aircraft
(Airliners, bizjets?) currently send out 1090ES data?

This is for the US, of course.

Kirk
66

Very very few right now - if you can find better information I'd love
to know. UPS and a few others are working on equipping faster than
most.

There is very little reason for biz jets to equip. UPS and some others
can argue for playing with this to look at scheduling, future in-trail
separation benefits etc. and UPS has been a leader in ADS-B technology
for a while -- their Louisville airport hub has ADS-B ground station
deployment early for this reason. Biz jets and others there are very
few argument for being an early user.

The FAA recently set the pretty draconian requirement for every ADS-B
data-out installation to be done via an STC, and specifically forbade
337/field approval. So even with full TSO approval of the WAAS GPS and
ADS-B data-out device they require each installation type (airframe +
equipment combo) to have an STC. This is supposed to go away
eventually, but who knows when. This single requirement will stifle
ADS-B data-out deployment in GA aircraft. This impediment to ADS-B
data-out deployment is a double whammy in the USA since you need ADS-B
data-out for TIS-B and ADS-R to work effectively (not that the
infrastructure to do those are widely deployed yet they will be over
the next few years). You've got to scratch you head with the whole FAA
handling of ADS-B.

The only think I think we can say with confidence is that by 2020 most
aircraft that today have transponders will have ADS-B data-out. I
expect many of those will be 1090ES (but will see). Of course there is
some finite probability the wheels could come off the bus along the
way.

Darryl

Anyone seen this little jewel, seems there is a new report out from
the OIG that ADS-B will be far more expensive than the FAA has
projected... FAA Report Number AV-2011-002 issued 10-12-2010 *see
dot.gov//library-item/5415

Like up to 30 for GA aircraft and 600K for airliners....

How about these gems?

http://www.aviationtoday.com/webinars/2010-1118.html

I guess the price of the webinar is to keep the riff raff out.

I don't suppose they will be carrying TCAS or ADS-B any time soon
either.

Frank Whiteley

On Oct 22, 1:49*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Oct 21, 6:47*pm, ray conlon wrote:





On Oct 21, 2:30*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On Oct 21, 10:36*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

PowerFLARM is supposed to have the capability to detect and display
Mode S 1090ES position data on its display. *How many aircraft
(Airliners, bizjets?) currently send out 1090ES data?

This is for the US, of course.

Kirk
66

Very very few right now - if you can find better information I'd love
to know. UPS and a few others are working on equipping faster than
most.

There is very little reason for biz jets to equip. UPS and some others
can argue for playing with this to look at scheduling, future in-trail
separation benefits etc. and UPS has been a leader in ADS-B technology
for a while -- their Louisville airport hub has ADS-B ground station
deployment early for this reason. Biz jets and others there are very
few argument for being an early user.

The FAA recently set the pretty draconian requirement for every ADS-B
data-out installation to be done via an STC, and specifically forbade
337/field approval. So even with full TSO approval of the WAAS GPS and
ADS-B data-out device they require each installation type (airframe +
equipment combo) to have an STC. This is supposed to go away
eventually, but who knows when. This single requirement will stifle
ADS-B data-out deployment in GA aircraft. This impediment to ADS-B
data-out deployment is a double whammy in the USA since you need ADS-B
data-out for TIS-B and ADS-R to work effectively (not that the
infrastructure to do those are widely deployed yet they will be over
the next few years). You've got to scratch you head with the whole FAA
handling of ADS-B.

The only think I think we can say with confidence is that by 2020 most
aircraft that today have transponders will have ADS-B data-out. I
expect many of those will be 1090ES (but will see). Of course there is
some finite probability the wheels could come off the bus along the
way.

Darryl

Anyone seen this little jewel, seems there is a new report out from
the OIG that ADS-B will be far more expensive than the FAA has
projected... FAA Report Number AV-2011-002 issued 10-12-2010 *see
dot.gov//library-item/5415

Like up to 30 for GA aircraft and 600K for airliners....

How about these gems?

http://www.aviationtoday.com/webinars/2010-1118.html

I guess the price of the webinar is to keep the riff raff out.

I don't suppose they will be carrying TCAS or ADS-B any time soon
either.

Frank Whiteley- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No its like the WASS/GPS bird that got fried by a solar flair April
3rd. and they don't have the money to build a new replacement and
launch it into orbit..maybe the Chicoms will be nice enought to launch
it for us (for a price I am sure) since we don't have the booster to
put new birds in orbit... The FAA has been very quiet about the fact
they lost the WASS west of the Rockies....