Future Club Training Gliders

Turning away from soaring because of how the glider looks just doesn't
seem valid to me, but that's just me.

Yes. *As somebody else mentioned, it exhibits a serious shallowness on the
part of the person who rejects the experience. *Maybe it really has to do
with current youth expecting instant gratification in all things.


The guy from the garage sale I was talking about was like 60 years
old... so your 'it's just the youth of today' argument is not actually
relevant to the situation you're commenting on. The story he relayed
to me was unsolicited and unfiltered, so it provides an honest and I
feel valuable insight into what wasn't a game-stopping problem for
most glider dorks on ras (myself included), but is a real issue
nonetheless.

If this were a trivial issue, the advertising industry would not be a
multi-trillion dollar juggernaut. In a world full of enticing choices,
the CEO of XXX corporation doesn't expect people to simply buy their
products 'just because', no matter how useful or wonderful the
products may be. Honest effort is put into trying to figure out how to
best supplant their idea/image, to most widely sell their wares most
effectively with particular emphasis on generating new users (ensuring
survival), and their advertising dept most likely takes the psychology
of aesthetics and marketing pretty seriously.

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.


-Paul

Paul Hanson wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

-Paul


That is a very perceptive comment. If instant gratification is the
primary demand from our marketplace, and our primary goal is to expand our
customer base, then we should aim for that instant gratification. A single
long introductrory flight in the highest-performance self-launcher to be
found; with the promise of solo in a couple of days, private license
within a week ?

But perhaps the soul of our sport is that it does NOT provide that kind of
instant gratification, that instead it rewards prolonged effort. Then we
restrict our market to that minority of people with similar tastes. We
will not grow so big or so fast. And perhaps people like that are happy
to start out at the bottom of the ladder, learn all the fundamental skills
and work their way to the top. Blaniks or Schweizers as workhorses, with
just a tantalizing glimpse of slippery glass to keep the long-term goal in
mind, might then be appropriate.

The glider does not matter so much compared to the inherent motivation of
the pilot and the skill and dedication of the instructor.

What we often do lose sight of is the need to offer a ladder with all the
rungs in place. There must be an affordable - that means cheap - entry
rung, intermediate rungs to gradually increase capabilities, and top rungs
for the most skilled and competitive. That suggests a mixed fleet.
Perhaps a 2-33 or Blanik, a 1-26 or similar to enjoy solo flight, an
ASK-21 to transition to glass, a Cirrus or Libelle to taste peformance and
a Duo or DG-1000 [possibly self-launching] before the new pilot needs to
buy his personal sailplane of choice.

Just a thought.

Ian

On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 16:48:12 +0000, Ian Cant wrote:

Paul Hanson wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that is
our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

-Paul


That is a very perceptive comment. If instant gratification is the
primary demand from our marketplace, and our primary goal is to expand
our customer base, then we should aim for that instant gratification. A
single long introductrory flight in the highest-performance
self-launcher to be found; with the promise of solo in a couple of days,
private license within a week ?

But perhaps the soul of our sport is that it does NOT provide that kind
of instant gratification, that instead it rewards prolonged effort.

I think you'll find that there's very little, apart from theme-park
rides, computer games, watching movies and reading that provide instant
gratification.

Everything else, from every day activities like riding a bike or driving
a car right the way through to complex and technical sports involves
time, a learning curve and an input of time and effort from the
participant.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Nov 8, 9:48*am, Ian Cant
wrote:
Paul Hanson wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

-Paul

That is a very perceptive comment. *If instant gratification is the
primary demand from our marketplace, and our primary goal is to expand our
customer base, then we should aim for that instant gratification. *A single
long introductrory flight in the highest-performance self-launcher to be
found; with the promise of solo in a couple of days, private license
within a week ?

But perhaps the soul of our sport is that it does NOT provide that kind of
instant gratification, that instead it rewards prolonged effort. *Then we
restrict our market to that minority of people with similar tastes. *We
will not grow so big or so fast. *And perhaps people like that are happy
to start out at the bottom of the ladder, learn all the fundamental skills
and work their way to the top. *Blaniks or Schweizers as workhorses, with
just a tantalizing glimpse of slippery glass to keep the long-term goal in
mind, might then be appropriate.

The glider does not matter so much compared to the inherent motivation of
the pilot and the skill and dedication of the instructor.

What we often do lose sight of is the need to offer a ladder with all the
rungs in place. *There must be an affordable - that means cheap - entry
rung, intermediate rungs to gradually increase capabilities, and top rungs
for the most skilled and competitive. *That suggests a mixed fleet.
Perhaps a 2-33 or Blanik, a 1-26 or similar to enjoy solo flight, an
ASK-21 to transition to glass, a Cirrus or Libelle to taste peformance and
a Duo or DG-1000 [possibly self-launching] before the new pilot needs to
buy his personal sailplane of choice.

Just a thought.

Ian

Ian, I'd buy your ladder if the ASK-21 was the bottom rung. The
ASK-21 is actually cheaper in constant dollars than the 2-33 when it
was new.

Don't confuse "cheap" with "cheapest old crap available" If we had
always insisted on "cheapest available" as the first rung, we'd still
be training in primary gliders.

Your ladder has been in effect for a long time now. You just have to
look Frank's FAA chart to see how it's working out.

On 11/8/2010 11:48 AM, Ian Cant wrote:
Paul Hanson wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

-Paul


That is a very perceptive comment. If instant gratification is the
primary demand from our marketplace, and our primary goal is to expand our
customer base, then we should aim for that instant gratification. A single
long introductrory flight in the highest-performance self-launcher to be
found; with the promise of solo in a couple of days, private license
within a week ?

But perhaps the soul of our sport is that it does NOT provide that kind of
instant gratification, that instead it rewards prolonged effort. Then we
restrict our market to that minority of people with similar tastes. We
will not grow so big or so fast. And perhaps people like that are happy
to start out at the bottom of the ladder, learn all the fundamental skills
and work their way to the top. Blaniks or Schweizers as workhorses, with
just a tantalizing glimpse of slippery glass to keep the long-term goal in
mind, might then be appropriate.

The glider does not matter so much compared to the inherent motivation of
the pilot and the skill and dedication of the instructor.

What we often do lose sight of is the need to offer a ladder with all the
rungs in place. There must be an affordable - that means cheap - entry
rung, intermediate rungs to gradually increase capabilities, and top rungs
for the most skilled and competitive. That suggests a mixed fleet.
Perhaps a 2-33 or Blanik, a 1-26 or similar to enjoy solo flight, an
ASK-21 to transition to glass, a Cirrus or Libelle to taste peformance and
a Duo or DG-1000 [possibly self-launching] before the new pilot needs to
buy his personal sailplane of choice.

Just a thought.

Ian






1st impressions make a huge difference. When you are dealing with a new
person who is interested in the sport, you want to make sure that
his/her 1st glider experience is a positive one.

It's not just what kind of glider it is, but also what condition it is
in. A pristine L-13 can make a very good impression, matching a
mediocre K-21. The same goes for a museum quality 2-33. However, a
worn glider that sits outside just, doesn't do it for a lot of people,
including power pilots who are just putting their toes in the water.

--
Mike Schumann

At 00:32 09 November 2010, Mike Schumann wrote:

1st impressions make a huge difference. When you are dealing with a new

person who is interested in the sport, you want to make sure that
his/her 1st glider experience is a positive one.

It's not just what kind of glider it is, but also what condition it is
in. A pristine L-13 can make a very good impression, matching a
mediocre K-21. The same goes for a museum quality 2-33. However, a
worn glider that sits outside just, doesn't do it for a lot of people,
including power pilots who are just putting their toes in the water.

I would suggest that the attitude of the ride pilot is just as important,
if not more so, than pure appearances. And a ride pilot is obviously
going to treat a pilot passenger differently than a novice.

Not to mention the attitude of the other people assisting with the flight
or just hanging around the gliders. When I first starting taking lessons
to transition from power to gliders, the club on the field took absolutely
*no* interest in what I was doing, or explaining what the club had to
offer, or attempting to interest me in joining. I practically had to
force myself on them (damn glad I did it, too). We generally present an
unfortunate impression of aloofness and distraction. The gregarious,
outgoing, friendly glider folks are a valuable exception.

Jim Beckman

Paul Hanson wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

-Paul


That is a very perceptive comment. If instant gratification is the
primary demand from our marketplace, and our primary goal is to expand our
customer base, then we should aim for that instant gratification. A single
long introductrory flight in the highest-performance self-launcher to be
found; with the promise of solo in a couple of days, private license
within a week ?

But perhaps the soul of our sport is that it does NOT provide that kind of
instant gratification, that instead it rewards prolonged effort. Then we
restrict our market to that minority of people with similar tastes. We
will not grow so big or so fast. And perhaps people like that are happy
to start out at the bottom of the ladder, learn all the fundamental skills
and work their way to the top. Blaniks or Schweizers as workhorses, with
just a tantalizing glimpse of slippery glass to keep the long-term goal in
mind, might then be appropriate.

The glider does not matter so much compared to the inherent motivation of
the pilot and the skill and dedication of the instructor.

What we often do lose sight of is the need to offer a ladder with all the
rungs in place. There must be an affordable - that means cheap - entry
rung, intermediate rungs to gradually increase capabilities, and top rungs
for the most skilled and competitive. That suggests a mixed fleet.
Perhaps a 2-33 or Blanik, a 1-26 or similar to enjoy solo flight, an
ASK-21 to transition to glass, a Cirrus or Libelle to taste peformance and
a Duo or DG-1000 [possibly self-launching] before the new pilot needs to
buy his personal sailplane of choice.

Just a thought.

Ian

Paul Hanson wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

-Paul


That is a very perceptive comment. If instant gratification is the
primary demand from our marketplace, and our primary goal is to expand our
customer base, then we should aim for that instant gratification. A single
long introductrory flight in the highest-performance self-launcher to be
found; with the promise of solo in a couple of days, private license
within a week ?

But perhaps the soul of our sport is that it does NOT provide that kind of
instant gratification, that instead it rewards prolonged effort. Then we
restrict our market to that minority of people with similar tastes. We
will not grow so big or so fast. And perhaps people like that are happy
to start out at the bottom of the ladder, learn all the fundamental skills
and work their way to the top. Blaniks or Schweizers as workhorses, with
just a tantalizing glimpse of slippery glass to keep the long-term goal in
mind, might then be appropriate.

The glider does not matter so much compared to the inherent motivation of
the pilot and the skill and dedication of the instructor.

What we often do lose sight of is the need to offer a ladder with all the
rungs in place. There must be an affordable - that means cheap - entry
rung, intermediate rungs to gradually increase capabilities, and top rungs
for the most skilled and competitive. That suggests a mixed fleet.
Perhaps a 2-33 or Blanik, a 1-26 or similar to enjoy solo flight, an
ASK-21 to transition to glass, a Cirrus or Libelle to taste peformance and
a Duo or DG-1000 [possibly self-launching] before the new pilot needs to
buy his personal sailplane of choice.

Just a thought.

Ian

On 11/8/2010 7:40 AM, sisu1a wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.


-Paul


Yes, we must not fall into the trap of thinking "our product is fine,
the problem is with the people who are not buying it."

At 15:40 08 November 2010, sisu1a wrote:

And what of it if today's youth want 'instant gratification'? Should
that not then be the goal for soaring operations to provide? If that
is our reality, than we either need to adapt to it or fade into
irrelevance.

Isn't that a fair working definition of a dilettante? Are those really
the people that we want to attract into our sport? On the other hand, it
is most certainly the folks that the commercial ride operations want to
attract.

I notice that when a 2-32 is available as a ride ship, it gets a lot of
use. And it's always sort of entertaining to see how they can pack two
folks into the back seat.

Jim Beckman