Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?

"ArtKramr" wrote

But he ended up as a copilot with the 344th Bomb Group flying
B-26 Marauders..I always wondered why, with his experience,
he didn't become a left seater. Any ideas?

Probably the same as today. Indoctrination. Up to speed on the
crew concept, learn the systems as you go, and get real-world
experience in emergencies/problems.

He would have gone through co-pilot pretty fast, unless they had a
mandatory hour requirement.

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 2/8/04 2:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: yGyVb.16343$Q_4.1733@okepread03

"ArtKramr" wrote

But he ended up as a copilot with the 344th Bomb Group flying
B-26 Marauders..I always wondered why, with his experience,
he didn't become a left seater. Any ideas?

Probably the same as today. Indoctrination. Up to speed on the
crew concept, learn the systems as you go, and get real-world
experience in emergencies/problems.

He would have gone through co-pilot pretty fast, unless they had a
mandatory hour requirement.



That is what I thought. But he never made it to the right seat.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 2/8/04 2:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 2/8/04 2:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: yGyVb.16343$Q_4.1733@okepread03

"ArtKramr" wrote

But he ended up as a copilot with the 344th Bomb Group flying
B-26 Marauders..I always wondered why, with his experience,
he didn't become a left seater. Any ideas?

Probably the same as today. Indoctrination. Up to speed on the
crew concept, learn the systems as you go, and get real-world
experience in emergencies/problems.

He would have gone through co-pilot pretty fast, unless they had a
mandatory hour requirement.



That is what I thought. But he never made it to the right seat.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


sorry. Left seat.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

That is what I thought. But he never made it to the left seat.

Maybe something else, probably something the squadron or wing
commander knew that no one else did (whole person concept).

Since the 80's they wouldn't waste time on anyone who wasn't
going to be an Aircraft Commander one day. They don't have
professional co-pilots :-)

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 2/8/04 5:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: MhBVb.16366$Q_4.12788@okepread03

"ArtKramr" wrote

That is what I thought. But he never made it to the left seat.

Maybe something else, probably something the squadron or wing
commander knew that no one else did (whole person concept).

Since the 80's they wouldn't waste time on anyone who wasn't
going to be an Aircraft Commander one day. They don't have
professional co-pilots :-)



This was in WW II. Everything that could fly had to fly. Pilots and crews were
needed. Every seat had to be filled with aircrew.The future had to take care
if itself.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 09 Feb 2004 01:44:22 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: "S. Sampson"

Since the 80's they wouldn't waste time on anyone who wasn't
going to be an Aircraft Commander one day. They don't have
professional co-pilots :-)

This was in WW II. Everything that could fly had to fly. Pilots and crews were
needed. Every seat had to be filled with aircrew.The future had to take care
if itself.

Arthur Kramer

Been thinking about this situation since the question was first
posted. Here's what I think might be a reason. Art can fill the blanks
if he has additional info.

The original stated the guy was a private pilot who went to Canada and
then wound up in the RAF flying Hurricanes. It didn't indicate if he
had gone through a formal military pilot training course in Canada or
England. Certainly the needs of the service in those hectic Battle of
Britain days might have gotten the guy a seat in a military airplane,
but when the American ex-pats got transferred into the USAAC, the
records might have shown no military aviation rating, merely a FAA
certificate.

Since the guy had some experience, he could fill a space on the
schedule, but without a rating he couldn't be advanced to
pilot-in-command duties. Plausible explanation??



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 2/9/04 7:12 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 09 Feb 2004 01:44:22 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Why would an RAF pilot become a USAAC co-pilot?
From: "S. Sampson"

Since the 80's they wouldn't waste time on anyone who wasn't
going to be an Aircraft Commander one day. They don't have
professional co-pilots :-)

This was in WW II. Everything that could fly had to fly. Pilots and crews
were
needed. Every seat had to be filled with aircrew.The future had to take
care
if itself.

Arthur Kramer

Been thinking about this situation since the question was first
posted. Here's what I think might be a reason. Art can fill the blanks
if he has additional info.

The original stated the guy was a private pilot who went to Canada and
then wound up in the RAF flying Hurricanes. It didn't indicate if he
had gone through a formal military pilot training course in Canada or
England. Certainly the needs of the service in those hectic Battle of
Britain days might have gotten the guy a seat in a military airplane,
but when the American ex-pats got transferred into the USAAC, the
records might have shown no military aviation rating, merely a FAA
certificate.

Since the guy had some experience, he could fill a space on the
schedule, but without a rating he couldn't be advanced to
pilot-in-command duties. Plausible explanation??



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Yes. I think that is very plausable. I even know of one case where an American
flew with the RAF and when transferred to the USAAC was refused flying status
other than a gunner spot. But he must have failed a test check flight. Can't
think of any other reason. He didn't survive the war and went down on one of
our many raids to the Cologne marshalling yards hit by ground fire,



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:12:03 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

Been thinking about this situation since the question was first
posted. Here's what I think might be a reason. Art can fill the blanks
if he has additional info.

The original stated the guy was a private pilot who went to Canada and
then wound up in the RAF flying Hurricanes. It didn't indicate if he
had gone through a formal military pilot training course in Canada or
England.

Anybody who flew RAF aircraft underwent an RAF training course. Even
the first Eagle squadron volunteers did so in the winter of 1940.
Transfer into the USAAF from the RAF was voluntary for American
pilots, and some didn't want to do it, for various reasons (in one
case a sense of obligation to the RAF who had paid for his training
and posted him to a combat unit where the pre-war USAAC had rejected
him as a pilot, another because he throught he'd fail a more stringent
USAAF medical examination). However, most did, for various reasons -
the most common given being for the higher pay.

Since the guy had some experience, he could fill a space on the
schedule, but without a rating he couldn't be advanced to
pilot-in-command duties. Plausible explanation??

I suspect the explanation lies somewhere along those lines of
differing USAAF institutional training and type-command requirements.
It was rare but not unheard of for a single-engined pilot to convert
to multi-engined aircraft.

Gavin Bailey

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:MhBVb.16366$Q_4.12788@okepread03...
"ArtKramr" wrote

That is what I thought. But he never made it to the left seat.

Maybe something else, probably something the squadron or wing
commander knew that no one else did (whole person concept).



Might have been medical -- but they didn't want to lose him altogether because
of his experience ...