Flarm in 2011 USA Contests

Some of us will have multiple FLARM units for gliders and tow planes.
There will be times when I do not need my FLARM unit and will be
willing to loan it to a pilot for a contest.

A loaner list can be provided by the RC so a pilot without FLARM can
make the contacts to procure a unit for a contest.

Assuming FLARM meets expectations, most serious, safety-minded pilots
will have one in the future.

Seems simple.

If I understand it correctly, we are telling our customers they would
only need to have an extra display (butterfly?) to move the FLARM unit
from one aircraft to another. Many glider pilots will want to move the
FLARM from their glider to their power plane.

Tom Knauff
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies

On Nov 18, 11:09*am, Tom wrote:
If I understand it correctly, we are telling our customers they would
only need to have an extra display (butterfly?) to move the FLARM unit
from one aircraft to another. Many glider pilots will want to move the
FLARM from their glider to their power plane.

Loaner units will be portable PowerFLARM,
which includes a display. 2nd picture he
http://www.gliderpilot.org/Flarm-WhatIsIt

Best Regards, Dave

On Nov 18, 8:09*am, Tom wrote:
Some of us will have multiple FLARM units for gliders and tow planes.
There will be times when I do not need my FLARM unit and will be
willing to loan it to a pilot for a contest.

A loaner list can be provided by the RC so a pilot without FLARM can
make the contacts to procure a unit for a contest.

Assuming FLARM meets expectations, most serious, safety-minded pilots
will have one in the future.

Seems simple.

If I understand it correctly, we are telling our customers they would
only need to have an extra display (butterfly?) to move the FLARM unit
from one aircraft to another. Many glider pilots will want to move the
FLARM from their glider to their power plane.

Tom Knauff
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies

You are talking about the remote mounted brick and not the portable
unit? (or why is an external display needed at all?)

Planning on moving a brick does not seem a good idea at all. It will
involve removing two SMA antenna connections (not exactly known for
their durability), the power connector, the display RJ45 connector,
undoing whatever way you have the brick mounted etc. And reconnecting
all this on the other aircraft. Where do you easily install the brick
on a typical power aircraft?

If owners want to move the device get a portable unit. If they want an
installed look they need to purchase two bricks. Two separate units
also avoids hassles with resetting ICAO ID and other information.

Darryl

On Nov 18, 8:51*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Nov 18, 8:09*am, Tom wrote:



Some of us will have multiple FLARM units for gliders and tow planes.
There will be times when I do not need my FLARM unit and will be
willing to loan it to a pilot for a contest.

A loaner list can be provided by the RC so a pilot without FLARM can
make the contacts to procure a unit for a contest.

Assuming FLARM meets expectations, most serious, safety-minded pilots
will have one in the future.

Seems simple.

If I understand it correctly, we are telling our customers they would
only need to have an extra display (butterfly?) to move the FLARM unit
from one aircraft to another. Many glider pilots will want to move the
FLARM from their glider to their power plane.

Tom Knauff
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies

You are talking about the remote mounted brick and not the portable
unit? (or why is an external display needed at all?)

Planning on moving a brick does not seem a good idea at all. It will
involve removing two SMA antenna connections (not exactly known for
their durability), the power connector, the display RJ45 connector,
undoing whatever way you have the brick mounted etc. And reconnecting
all this on the other aircraft. Where do you easily install the brick
on a typical power aircraft?

If owners want to move the device get a portable unit. If they want an
installed look they need to purchase two bricks. Two separate units
also avoids hassles with resetting ICAO ID and other information.

Darryl

Sigh, I'll try again... this would involve removing

3 (not 2) SMA connectors - Flarm antenna, 1090ES antenna and the GPS
antenna.
The USB cable for the USB memory stick
The power connector
The display RJ-45 connector
Unfastening the brick itself

Reverse at the other end.

On the power aircraft you may want to have a connector pre-wired in to
attach the PowerFLARM audio out to the audio panel or to the aux in of
the headset if it has an aux in.

Moving the portable unit would involve unscrewing it or lifting it off
the 3M "mushroom" tape. Removing the external power connector if one
was used and removing the audio connection if one was used (in a power
aircraft or motorglider).

Darryl

Hi Dale,

I did not mean to imply that you did not understand the scope of it. I
applaud what you were offering.

I'm sorry to hear that you backed-out of your offer due to the lack of
support of your specific agenda - but I don't blame you for backing out at
all.

But I do agree with the contest committee.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"DaleKramer" wrote in message
...
Paule,

I am aware that the scope of what I volunteered to do was enormous.

I think the level of support that I received was partly because enough
people knew that I would have been able to accomplish what I started
if I had just received the RC support the way that I received popular
support from the silent majority.

Dale

On 11/18/2010 6:43 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:

I also have some concerns about a rental program requiring the
temporary installation of a unit. I like stuff bolted to my panel and
I like to be fully familiar with electronics before I fly in a
demanding contest. I am not sure that having a significant number of
pilots in a contest with a loose device Velcroed or duck-taped to the
glider and having them read the user manual in a gaggle is the best
way to proceed.


Don't worry about the device being "loose": the 3M "mushroom" tape is
fully capable of keeping the unit in place under 20 G+ forces, based on
the testing of my SPOT mounting, which uses less than 2 sq. inches of
the stuff. Note that Mountain High has supplied the stuff for over a
decade to mount their oxygen controllers of similar weight and size,
with no problems I'm aware of, including the two EDS units I've used
over 15 years now.

Come'on - reading a manual in the cockpit? I haven't used Flarm, but
since it's not required for flying the glider or for performing the
task, it'll be "turn it on and forget about it till it squawks". If it
squawks too much, the pilot will just turn if off (or mute it) and
continue like he has for years, no more safety risk than before, and
then educate himself after he's landed.

These are not primary contest devices, like the flight computer!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On Nov 18, 12:33*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 11/18/2010 6:43 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:



I also have some concerns about a rental program requiring the
temporary installation of a unit. *I

Don't worry about the device being "loose": the 3M "mushroom" tape is
fully capable of keeping the unit in place under 20 G+ forces, based on
the testing of my SPOT mounting,

My latest info is that there will be some nifty easy mounting devices
for the regular Power Flarm. Among others, a L shaped bracket that
uses this super-velcro to hook to the canopy rail, and a suction-cup
system like Cambridge provided with the model 20. And more on the way.
They seem to get the idea that installation is important!

John Cochrane

On Nov 18, 10:33*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 11/18/2010 6:43 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:



I also have some concerns about a rental program requiring the
temporary installation of a unit. *I like stuff bolted to my panel and
I like to be fully familiar with electronics before I fly in a
demanding contest. *I am not sure that having a significant number of
pilots in a contest with a loose device Velcroed or duck-taped to the
glider and having them read the user manual in a gaggle is the best
way to proceed.

Don't worry about the device being "loose": the 3M "mushroom" tape is
fully capable of keeping the unit in place under 20 G+ forces, based on
the testing of my SPOT mounting, which uses less than 2 sq. inches of
the stuff. Note that Mountain High has supplied the stuff for over a
decade to mount their oxygen controllers of similar weight and size,
with no problems I'm aware of, including the two EDS units I've used
over 15 years now.

Come'on - reading a manual in the cockpit? I haven't used Flarm, but
since it's not required for flying the glider or for performing the
task, it'll be "turn it on and forget about it till it squawks". If it
squawks too much, the pilot will just turn if off (or mute it) and
continue like he has for years, no more safety risk than before, and
then educate himself after he's landed.

These are not primary contest devices, like the flight computer!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

I disagree. There will need to be training/study for use of a
PowerFLARM and the last thing I would want a contest pilot trying to
do is sort all this out on a contest day - Dale I believe understands
this and was planning appropriate assistance/training etc. (now moot I
guess). e.g. you better worry about the different types of warnings,
how to dismiss nuisance alerts (e.g. PCAS in a gaggle) and not others.
What the different symbols on the map screen mean. Whether to put the
device in Nearest, Contest, etc. mode. How to confirm it is working
correctly, has a GPS signal, etc. How to register on FLARMnet and load
a FLARMnet database. How to correctly set ICAO address and other
information, (especially if you also have a Mode S transponder to help
with other pilot's PowerFLARM do PCAS/Flarm deduplication) and other
information etc. Butterfly may be emphasizing the ease of use of
PowerFLARM and I expect them to do a good job making these relatively
easy to use but I get very worried when I see comments like it will be
"turn it on and forget until it squawks" type device--that thinking
could lead to dangerous situations.

I hope pilots, especially contest pilots will add PowerFLARM items to
their pre-contest/flight checklist. Over the years I've added things
like "GPS OK/acquired" and "task entered and declared (if needed)" to
my pre-flight (i.e. before your are in the cockpit) checklist.

Darryl

Having been a Flarm user for years I can tell you it is a install and
forget device. The portable device(for initial contest use) will
probably not be integrated into your PDA so you would just make sure
you have good batteries, mount it with the EZ-lock or what ever and
turn it on. It will see other Flarm units in the area, and it will
give you collision avoidence alerts when you go flying. Pretty much
right out of the box. Yes, setting the ICAO address is good but in the
rental contest situation it is not necessary. Don't make this harder
than it has to be. Get the rental units to the Contest staff (along
with lots of EZ-lock strips and batteries) and have them hand them
out. Have a safety meeting with training on what to expect from the
Flarm unit and how to install/operate and go fly.

The first time I saw Flarm was when it was installed in a club plane I
was flying. Did a winch launch, got a warning, looked at the display
(for probably a second) and then looked out to see the glider that the
Flarm was warning me about. SOLD! I would have seen this plane but
Flarm saw it first. From that point forward I will not fly without a
working Flarm unit.
Some lessons he
Flarm works and alerts you to Flarm equipped planes you have not seen
(yet).
I hadn't been "trained" on Flarm but when I saw the display I knew
where to look.
I have yet to meet a glider pilot who does not "Get" the Flarm concept
after flying with Flarm. (of course some still haven't bought a unit
yet but I don't know anybody who doesn't fly with one) PEER PRESSURE
WORKS WELL.

Get the Flarms into the contests, get them into club planes, then
you'll get them into the other planes.

You may not (ok, probably don't) agree with all of this but until you
fly with Flarm you don't know what your missing! Litterally! Ask
anyone who has flown with Flarm. John Cochrane?

Bob

On 11/18/2010 11:24 AM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Nov 18, 10:33 am, Eric wrote:


Come'on - reading a manual in the cockpit? I haven't used Flarm, but
since it's not required for flying the glider or for performing the
task, it'll be "turn it on and forget about it till it squawks". If it
squawks too much, the pilot will just turn if off (or mute it) and
continue like he has for years, no more safety risk than before, and
then educate himself after he's landed.

These are not primary contest devices, like the flight computer!

I disagree. There will need to be training/study for use of a
PowerFLARM and the last thing I would want a contest pilot trying to
do is sort all this out on a contest day - Dale I believe understands
this and was planning appropriate assistance/training etc. (now moot I
guess). e.g. you better worry about the different types of warnings,
how to dismiss nuisance alerts (e.g. PCAS in a gaggle) and not others.
What the different symbols on the map screen mean. Whether to put the
device in Nearest, Contest, etc. mode. How to confirm it is working
correctly, has a GPS signal, etc. How to register on FLARMnet and load
a FLARMnet database. How to correctly set ICAO address and other
information, (especially if you also have a Mode S transponder to help
with other pilot's PowerFLARM do PCAS/Flarm deduplication) and other
information etc. Butterfly may be emphasizing the ease of use of
PowerFLARM and I expect them to do a good job making these relatively
easy to use but I get very worried when I see comments like it will be
"turn it on and forget until it squawks" type device--that thinking
could lead to dangerous situations.

I hope pilots, especially contest pilots will add PowerFLARM items to
their pre-contest/flight checklist. Over the years I've added things
like "GPS OK/acquired" and "task entered and declared (if needed)" to
my pre-flight (i.e. before your are in the cockpit) checklist.

Darryl

I agree completely that a pilot should learn how to use it while on the
ground to get full use out of the unit, but my impression is somebody
can be handed one, given a 5 minute basic introduction, then go flying.
He'll know enough to turn the unit on/off, to mute it, and to be to know
where to look when the unit signals a conflict with another glider.
That's just for the first flight. He'll know more before the next
flight, and so on.

I just don't see any reason to think pilots will be so involved in the
unit, they will be less safe during the course of the first few flights
than without it, and I still think it's nonsense to talk about "reading
the manual" in flight. It's not a flight computer! You are not trying to
navigate with it, not trying optimize your turn within a turnpoint area,
not trying to locate and center lift, not distracting yourself by
talking on the radio. It just sits there, like my MRX pcas unit, until
there is a potential problem. I'm just parroting what the guys that use
them tell us. Why not believe them?

All the other stuff - Flarmnet, database, ADS-B, ICAO address - is that
necessary for it to provide it's primary function in a contest, which is
to warn pilots of potential conflicts with other gliders?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)