What First Glider to own?

On Dec 2, 2:05*pm, Sparkorama
wrote:
I'm getting back into the sport after a long hiatus and flying in the
Boston area. I'll be putting some winter flying time in and I'm
considering buying my first glider once I'm back to comfortable solos
and my private license. (Naturally, I won't fly anything until I am
competent and ready). Any suggestions on a first glider? Because of my
price range, I realize I'll be looking at some older birds. I would say
my preferences are as follows. Under 20k, easy to fly, easy to maintain
and safe. Naturally, I'd like to see some decent glide performance, just
thinking that some future performance would be good for keeping the
plane for some time. *(currently I'm considering an IS29D2 Lark)
My club has competent instructors and the following fleet (winter flying
in only the 2-33):
1 Puchacz (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer, aerobatic)
3 Blanik L-23 (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer,
sightseeing)
1 Blanik L-33 solo (single place, 30/1 performance; cross-country,
sightseeing)
1 Schweitzer 1-34 (single place, 34/1 performance)
1 Pilatus B-4 (single place, 35/1 performance; cross-country,
aerobatic)
1 Schweizer 2-33A (two place, 23/1 performance; trainer)
1 Schweizer 1-26E (single place, 23/1 performance; aerobatic)
Your thoughts would be appreciated.

--
Sparkorama

Sparky,
A few years ago I made a quasi-scientific weighted chart to determine
the best glider to buy, and in your price range it's a Libelle. Very
good value, light and easy to rig. Might give it a look.

My club has competent instructors and the following fleet (winter flying
in only the 2-33):
1 Puchacz (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer, aerobatic)
3 Blanik L-23 (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer,
sightseeing)
1 Blanik L-33 solo (single place, 30/1 performance; cross-country,
sightseeing)
1 Schweitzer 1-34 (single place, 34/1 performance)
1 Pilatus B-4 (single place, 35/1 performance; cross-country,
aerobatic)
1 Schweizer 2-33A (two place, 23/1 performance; trainer)
1 Schweizer 1-26E (single place, 23/1 performance; aerobatic)
Your thoughts would be appreciated.


What everyone else said, but with the caveat that you should spend the
next season flying all the good equipment in your club, and then you
will be infinitely better informed. Also, If you fly less than 30 hrs
in the next year, you should consider the old saying "If it floats,
flies or _____, RENT, don't own!

aerodyne

We could have a new acronym for this -

There is no substitute for owning your own glider = TINSFOYOG, not
exactly catchy. But true.

It matters a lot less how good the performance is of the glider - than
that you have access to something you can explore in whenever madame
opportunity winks at you. Look at how much fun Tony Condon has had with
a Cherokee.

I know that my own flying was transformed by getting into a Std Cirrus
partnership. That was probably the best way to do it. A partner who
disliked the handling on the Cirrus but paid half the costs and gladly
did maintenance because he enjoys it. So 100% access to fly, and lots of
help along the way.

No more club haggling to fly on the good days, no more insurance issues
(it costs but on your own terms)

Bruce

On 2010/12/03 6:44 AM, wrote:
My club has competent instructors and the following fleet (winter flying
in only the 2-33):
1 Puchacz (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer, aerobatic)
3 Blanik L-23 (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer,
sightseeing)
1 Blanik L-33 solo (single place, 30/1 performance; cross-country,
sightseeing)
1 Schweitzer 1-34 (single place, 34/1 performance)
1 Pilatus B-4 (single place, 35/1 performance; cross-country,
aerobatic)
1 Schweizer 2-33A (two place, 23/1 performance; trainer)
1 Schweizer 1-26E (single place, 23/1 performance; aerobatic)
Your thoughts would be appreciated.


What everyone else said, but with the caveat that you should spend the
next season flying all the good equipment in your club, and then you
will be infinitely better informed. Also, If you fly less than 30 hrs
in the next year, you should consider the old saying "If it floats,
flies or _____, RENT, don't own!

aerodyne

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

Bucks for glide angle - Discus
Good handling qualities - Discus
Easy to rig- Discus
Good spares availability -Discus

If however you are looking for a pretty glider, with excellent
performance, excellent handling qualities, and are strong enough to rig
it: ASW17. Don't let the flaps put you off, the handling is simplicity in
itself and it does what it says on the tin. Bucks for glide angle, nothing
comes anywhere near :-)






At 06:33 03 December 2010, BruceGreeff wrote:
We could have a new acronym for this -

There is no substitute for owning your own glider = TINSFOYOG, not
exactly catchy. But true.

It matters a lot less how good the performance is of the glider - than
that you have access to something you can explore in whenever madame
opportunity winks at you. Look at how much fun Tony Condon has had with
a Cherokee.

I know that my own flying was transformed by getting into a Std Cirrus
partnership. That was probably the best way to do it. A partner who
disliked the handling on the Cirrus but paid half the costs and gladly
did maintenance because he enjoys it. So 100% access to fly, and lots of

help along the way.

No more club haggling to fly on the good days, no more insurance issues
(it costs but on your own terms)

Bruce

On 2010/12/03 6:44 AM, wrote:
My club has competent instructors and the following fleet (winter
flying
in only the 2-33):
1 Puchacz (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer, aerobatic)
3 Blanik L-23 (two place, 30/1 performance; advanced trainer,
sightseeing)
1 Blanik L-33 solo (single place, 30/1 performance; cross-country,
sightseeing)
1 Schweitzer 1-34 (single place, 34/1 performance)
1 Pilatus B-4 (single place, 35/1 performance; cross-country,
aerobatic)
1 Schweizer 2-33A (two place, 23/1 performance; trainer)
1 Schweizer 1-26E (single place, 23/1 performance; aerobatic)
Your thoughts would be appreciated.


What everyone else said, but with the caveat that you should spend the
next season flying all the good equipment in your club, and then you
will be infinitely better informed. Also, If you fly less than 30 hrs
in the next year, you should consider the old saying "If it floats,
flies or _____, RENT, don't own!

aerodyne

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

On Dec 3, 5:16*am, Don Johnstone wrote:
Bucks for glide angle *- Discus
Good handling qualities - Discus
Easy to rig- Discus
Good spares availability -Discus


I have never seen a Discus for under 20K. of course 20K would make a
good partnership interest if thats what he's into

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:41:33 -0800, brianDG303 wrote:


Sparky,
A few years ago I made a quasi-scientific weighted chart to determine
the best glider to buy, and in your price range it's a Libelle. Very
good value, light and easy to rig. Might give it a look.

I've had mine since mid-2006 and love it: easy to rig, light & precise
handling at all speeds, excellent all-round visibility and its the most
spin-resistant single seater I've flown. Yes, the air-brakes are weak,
but if slips very well and controllably - a fair trade-off I think.

However, do sit in one before going out to buy - they definitely suit
long, lean people rather than the well-fed or broad shouldered. Its a
great help to have the over-shoulder stowage: this is a semi-circular bag
that clips onto the spars behind the seat. Their only serious issue is a
tendency to snap-rotate on a winch launch - if you get one and want to
winch it, make sure you're winch current and GET A BRIEFING FROM SOMEBODY
WHO HAS WINCHED A LIBELLE before you try it: there is no guidance about
this in the POH. Aero towing is simple and easy.

Apart from that, what Aerodyne says: fly as many different club and
rental gliders before you buy as possible to get an idea of performance,
comfort and generally what suits you.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

GBSC's B4 and L33 are perfectly competent gliders that are
underutilized. The B4 is quite well instrumented too (SN10 thanks to
Dave Nadler). Over the years several members have taken advantage of
this and done long flights in them.

That gives you time to mull which glider to buy. Partnerships are a
great way to get a better glider and split expenses. Few people have
that much time to fly these days.

Juan

Sparky,
A few years ago I made a quasi-scientific weighted chart to determine
the best glider to buy, and in your price range it's a Libelle. Very
good value, light and easy to rig. Might give it a look.


I would also recommend a Libelle:

Nearly everyone holds Libelles as beautiful and I couldn't agree more.

Light wings and easiest to rig.

Automatic control hookups except for the ailerons. Ailerons connect with
simple pins that are permanently attached on 201 Libelles. The
connections are also conveniently located and in plain sight.

Very well engineered. Not many AD's.

Very good finish quality.

Excellent climb in weak conditions.

Overall performance is good enough that you won't "outgrow" it in a
couple of seasons. Sports/Club class handicap is competitive.

My own preference is the 301 Libelle simply because the flap handle
gives me something to do with my left hand (prevents blindness on long
x-country flights), the "low" canopy looks cool, and the tailchute
impresses the chicks. However, standard Libelles handle better and are
much more plentiful.

Alternatives:

The Standard Cirrus is a real joy as well. I absolutely love the light
controls on the Cirrus.

Expensive parts or not, I would never dismiss an LS-4 if you can find
one and can afford it. There has never been a better 1st glider than an
LS-4.

A Discus would be about as good as the LS-4 for a first glider, but with
the better performance, you would keep it longer.

ASW-19's are OK, but overpriced for performance because they look sexy.
ASW-15's are is great handling since they are bascially a glass Ka-6,
but you'll outgrow one too quickly if you fly much x-country or race.

H301 Libelle #19, "WB"

I would also recommend a Libelle:

Nearly everyone holds Libelles as beautiful and I couldn't agree more.



I'll have to disagree, to some extent, with WB.

Beautiful, yes. But only in a rare time when seen from a higher
vantage point and having to twist neck to look back and down.

Really ugly when seen from below and well out in front of my typical
vantage point. :-)

And yes, the low canopy really improves the look of this classic
glider.

I'll second what others have said: Make sure you get a good trailer
with all the bits in working order. Not much sucks more than a
knuckle-busting trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS1-d

How Dare you! ??!

Libelle is "UGLY"???? and this coming for a guy with an LS1C?????

Glass houses!
Tim )

"rlovinggood" wrote in message
...
I would also recommend a Libelle:

Nearly everyone holds Libelles as beautiful and I couldn't agree more.



I'll have to disagree, to some extent, with WB.

Beautiful, yes. But only in a rare time when seen from a higher
vantage point and having to twist neck to look back and down.

Really ugly when seen from below and well out in front of my typical
vantage point. :-)

And yes, the low canopy really improves the look of this classic
glider.

I'll second what others have said: Make sure you get a good trailer
with all the bits in working order. Not much sucks more than a
knuckle-busting trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS1-d





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