Andes accident

On 12/7/2010 5:30 AM, Walt Connelly wrote:
This presents an interesting question regarding survival training and

Regarding the parachute, I wince when I see most people put on their
chute. There have been some good articles in the SSA magazine about
proper fit and usage, these deserve to be read and reread. Getting
out of a glider out of control would be difficult at best, it's
something that needs to be practiced on the ground. Canopy, belts,
butt.

Even with the SPOT they might not be able to get to you right away due
to weather, etc. We spend lots of time learning to fly, navigate and the
like. Perhaps those among us who are serious about flying might
consider attending a survival course of some type. Knowledge is the
greatest asset when the ship hits the sand.

In 35 years of soaring, I can't ever remember an incident in the USA
where we stood around saying, "if only he'd had some survival gear..."

I carry about 5 lbs of stuff, but have never come close to needing it,
and I've flown all over the country. I know people that have been saved
by their parachute, but not anyone ever needing anything beyond a jacket
and lots of water after landing. Do I just have a poor memory, or is
this an infinitesimal risk?

One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 12/7/2010 10:10 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 12/7/2010 5:30 AM, Walt Connelly wrote:
This presents an interesting question regarding survival training and

Regarding the parachute, I wince when I see most people put on their
chute. There have been some good articles in the SSA magazine about
proper fit and usage, these deserve to be read and reread. Getting
out of a glider out of control would be difficult at best, it's
something that needs to be practiced on the ground. Canopy, belts,
butt.

Even with the SPOT they might not be able to get to you right away due
to weather, etc. We spend lots of time learning to fly, navigate and the
like. Perhaps those among us who are serious about flying might
consider attending a survival course of some type. Knowledge is the
greatest asset when the ship hits the sand.

In 35 years of soaring, I can't ever remember an incident in the USA
where we stood around saying, "if only he'd had some survival gear..."

I carry about 5 lbs of stuff, but have never come close to needing it,
and I've flown all over the country. I know people that have been saved
by their parachute, but not anyone ever needing anything beyond a jacket
and lots of water after landing. Do I just have a poor memory, or is
this an infinitesimal risk?

One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?


He left a note with the plane indicating exactly where he was going.
That was probably not a bad plan if he was in good physical condition,
thought he knew where he could find help (downstream), and was unsure of
how long it would take for someone to find the plane.

--
Mike Schumann

On Dec 7, 8:10*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?

White glider in snow is probably no easier to spot than a person with
contrasting color clothing but it does provide shelter. If may also
may have disposable bits that would burn making lots of smoke. One
advantage of flying a 15/18m glider. First burn the winglets, then
the outer panels, then the hozizontal. If that didn't attract
attention you'd probably want to die anyway.

Never tried it though and have no idea how hard it would be to get one
burning and keep it burning. The oxygen bottle should help.

Andy

On Dec 8, 8:03*am, Andy wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:10*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:

One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?

White glider in snow is probably no easier to spot than a person with
contrasting color clothing but it does provide shelter. *If may also
may have disposable bits that would burn making lots of smoke. *One
advantage of flying a 15/18m glider. *First burn the winglets, then
the outer panels, then the hozizontal. *If that didn't attract
attention you'd probably want to die anyway.

Never tried it though and have no idea how hard it would be to get one
burning and keep it burning. The oxygen bottle should help.

Andy

Great ideas, hopefully I will never need to use them...
Still, I rather pay $150 per year for spot service and press the 911/
sos button than start burning my glider...

Ramy

On Dec 8, 2:41*pm, Ramy wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:03*am, Andy wrote:





On Dec 7, 8:10*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:

One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft.. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?

White glider in snow is probably no easier to spot than a person with
contrasting color clothing but it does provide shelter. *If may also
may have disposable bits that would burn making lots of smoke. *One
advantage of flying a 15/18m glider. *First burn the winglets, then
the outer panels, then the hozizontal. *If that didn't attract
attention you'd probably want to die anyway.

Never tried it though and have no idea how hard it would be to get one
burning and keep it burning. The oxygen bottle should help.

Andy

Great ideas, hopefully I will never need to use them...
Still, I rather pay $150 per year for spot service and press the 911/
sos button than start burning my glider...

Ramy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hmmmm. If the glider is totally wrecked, then I suppose burning it
wouldn't break your hear any more than it is already. In that
case.... burning the tire will produce an enormous amount of very
black smoke. Do step away from the wreckage though, many of our
wheels are magnesium, and burn spectacularly once ignited!

On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 08:03:04 -0800, Andy wrote:

White glider in snow is probably no easier to spot than a person with
contrasting color clothing but it does provide shelter.

The glider is most likely harder to spot than a person in reasonable
colourful clothes.

I remember being in the circuit at Nympsfield in a K-13 behind a Nimbus 3
one year when there was an even 3" layer of snow on the field under a
nice blue sky and a fabulous view of the Welsh mountains. We were
following an all white Nimbus round the circuit and on the base leg the
instructor asked where I was planning to land. When I said "To the left
of the Nimbus" he replied "Good plan". The Nimbus landed as we were
turning onto finals and completely vanished as soon as it stopped
rolling. I said "I've lost the Nimbus" and a comforting "So have I" came
from the back seat, but when we too stopped we were well clear of it.

Lesson learned: white gliders are visible while they're moving but once
they stop you can't see them.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Dec 8, 11:03*am, Andy wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:10*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:

One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?

White glider in snow is probably no easier to spot than a person with
contrasting color clothing but it does provide shelter. *If may also
may have disposable bits that would burn making lots of smoke. *One
advantage of flying a 15/18m glider. *First burn the winglets, then
the outer panels, then the hozizontal. *If that didn't attract
attention you'd probably want to die anyway.

Never tried it though and have no idea how hard it would be to get one
burning and keep it burning. The oxygen bottle should help.

Andy



There was no snow where the glider landed...

Juan

[quote='Eric Greenwell

In 35 years of soaring, I can't ever remember an incident in the USA
where we stood around saying, "if only he'd had some survival gear..."

I carry about 5 lbs of stuff, but have never come close to needing it,
and I've flown all over the country. I know people that have been saved
by their parachute, but not anyone ever needing anything beyond a jacket
and lots of water after landing. Do I just have a poor memory, or is
this an infinitesimal risk?

One thing surprised me about the Andes incident: he left the aircraft. I
thought the standard cautions was "stay with the aircraft, because it's
easier to locate". Or is that just a USA thing?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)[/QUOTE]

While the risk may be infinitesimal, the fact is that to the person who finds himself down in an isolated area the risk is very real. The person in the Andes accident which started this thread is a good example of someone who might have stayed with the plane had he a few simple items like a signal mirror, fire started, space blanket and the like.

Does one always carry "lots of water" in the glider? Perhaps in his bail out kit? A simple mini water purification system would be a good idea. You carry 5 lbs of gear in your glider which indicates that you recognize the potential, no matter how small. Five pounds might be a bit of overkill but you are at least prepared.

Training and preparedness is never a bad thing.

Walt