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Powerflarm's unknown effect on the first contests in US



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 9th 11, 03:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Posts: 1,565
Default Powerflarm's unknown effect on the first contests in US

On Jan 8, 8:46*pm, chris wrote:
On Jan 8, 7:17*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:

Where do you get that "Flarmers" will be able to leach better than non-
flarmers. Really? Kindly explain how that will work. I've never seen
that fear raised in any discussion of Flarm.


The whole leaching question is a tempest in a teapot. *If it bothers
you, turn on Stealth mode and you can't be leached (but will still get
collision warning).
Kirk
66


Kirk,
My understanding is that if stealth mode is off then a pilot can see
the climb rate of other flarm equipped gliders in the area: *One way
to do it is using Winpilot - see this from the winpilot site:
"FLARM Support: Added the ability to track several other gliders in
the vicinity that also carry FLARM on board. WinPilot can now show
visually the position of the other gliders, their bearing, and also
indicate weather or not they are climbing, and if so, what their
current climb rate is."
see the graphic on the main page.http://www.winpilot.com/images4/News2.gif

seeyou mobile does the same as do other systems:http://gliderpilot.org/files/FlarmFl...rformance/SeeY...

So is it a fair competition if in early 2011 part of the fleet is
allowed to share remote thermal sensing data?
Like shooting fish in a barrel, not a contest. *To me it appears that
we are allowing team flying - with good displays and coordination 2 or
more pilots could team fly a whole contest season and never have to
talk on the radio. *So maybe I turn my stealth mode on to prevent
others from getting my data but that won't stop other pilots from team
flying via flarm.

I do not understand why we would introduce it "unrestricted" for
2011. *I realize we/Rules Committee do[es] not have familiarity with
the system, but other countries do, can we learn from them rather than
risk as much chaos? * Andy posted the UK 2010 flarm rules earlier in
this discussion, to me it makes sense for us to start off with the
stealth mode required too, that gets the anti-collision function and
reduces the data sharing issues. This is my request to the Rules
Committee.

To Henry's point i do think there is some risk, especially early on of
pilots focusing on their "show me where to find lift radar screen"
that they don't look out the window for the non flarm guys as much.
Ironically could be more dangerous. * * omg I am agreeing with Henry
on something? ;-)

Chris


If seeing other competitors climb rates is a competitive advantage
then that's an additional incentive for everyone to equip with
PowerFLARM. That is exactly where we would have been with MIRA except
that for the 2011 racing reason it's still voluntary and no pilot will
lose a contest day to a FLARM failure.

Andy (GY)



  #2  
Old January 9th 11, 05:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
chris
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Posts: 89
Default Powerflarm's unknown effect on the first contests in US

On Jan 9, 10:18*am, Andy wrote:

If seeing other competitors climb rates is a competitive advantage
then that's *an additional incentive for everyone to equip with
PowerFLARM.
Andy (GY)


So at what point do we just call them "cross country cooperative fly
togethers" and remove the words competition and contest?

The ideal setup is a duo discus with large format computer screens,
the guy in back can just operate the computers and track all the other
gliders and navigate to each marked thermal.

Chris
  #3  
Old January 9th 11, 06:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_10_]
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Posts: 261
Default Powerflarm's unknown effect on the first contests in US

On Jan 9, 9:57*am, chris wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:18*am, Andy wrote:

If seeing other competitors climb rates is a competitive advantage
then that's *an additional incentive for everyone to equip with
PowerFLARM.
Andy (GY)


So at what point do we just call them "cross country cooperative fly
togethers" and remove the words competition and contest?

The ideal setup is a duo discus with large format computer screens,
the guy in back can just operate the computers and track all the other
gliders and navigate to each marked thermal.

Chris


That happens today. I've been SN-10 operator, navigator, thermal
scout, glider spotter and tactician as a passenger. With an
experienced back-seater it can be a big advantage - adding a Flarm
seems a small incremental bump in capability compared to the value of
adding a good back-seater in the first place.

I will be very interested to see if the concern about Flarm taking
most of the skill out of contest flying comes to pass. Good pilots
today are skilled at finding fast climbing gliders within a few miles,
just using their eyeballs. I don't consider that a detriment to
competition. I don't consider GPS to be a detriment to competition
either - or Spots, or radios, or transponders, or compasses, or
variometers or altimeters, or supplemental oxygen or parachutes for
that matter.

9B

  #4  
Old January 9th 11, 09:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Beckman[_2_]
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Posts: 186
Default Powerflarm's unknown effect on the first contests in US

At 17:57 09 January 2011, chris wrote:

The ideal setup is a duo discus with large format computer screens,
the guy in back can just operate the computers and track all the other
gliders and navigate to each marked thermal.


And the GIB can also run the electronic counter measures and man the
machine guns when appropriate.

Jim Beckman


  #5  
Old January 9th 11, 04:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default Powerflarm's unknown effect on the first contests in US

On Jan 8, 8:46*pm, chris wrote:

Kirk,
My understanding is that if stealth mode is off then a pilot can see
the climb rate of other flarm equipped gliders in the area: *


So maybe I turn my stealth mode on to prevent
others from getting my data but that won't stop other pilots from team
flying via flarm.


Chris


That's the whole point: I you are worried someone will leech (got it
right this time!) your thermal off FLARM, then you select Stealth mode
and no one gets your climb info - and you don't get anyone else's
climb info. But you ALL still get collision warning.

So if all the hotshots are worried about team flying and leeching by
newbies - all it takes is for them to get together in the bar before
the race and agree on selecting Stealth mode. If anyone cheats and
doesn't stealth-up, he still won't see anything unless others also
cheat - and anyone with a Flarm could momentarily deselect Stealth
mode and possibly catch the cheaters.

Sure, people could team fly if they agreed ahead of time - but
remember the flarm logger records the mode, so the probability of
getting caught is pretty high - because anyone can at any time see
that you are not in Stealth mode!

Guys, you are overthinking this issue. At the ranges Flarm will show
other gliders, you either are going to already see it cranking and
banking in a boomer, or by the time you get there the bubble is
gone....

Everyone just take a deep breath, relax, and let's go out and have
fun.

Kirk
66




 




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