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On Jan 8, 8:46*pm, chris wrote:
On Jan 8, 7:17*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote: Where do you get that "Flarmers" will be able to leach better than non- flarmers. Really? Kindly explain how that will work. I've never seen that fear raised in any discussion of Flarm. The whole leaching question is a tempest in a teapot. *If it bothers you, turn on Stealth mode and you can't be leached (but will still get collision warning). Kirk 66 Kirk, My understanding is that if stealth mode is off then a pilot can see the climb rate of other flarm equipped gliders in the area: *One way to do it is using Winpilot - see this from the winpilot site: "FLARM Support: Added the ability to track several other gliders in the vicinity that also carry FLARM on board. WinPilot can now show visually the position of the other gliders, their bearing, and also indicate weather or not they are climbing, and if so, what their current climb rate is." see the graphic on the main page.http://www.winpilot.com/images4/News2.gif seeyou mobile does the same as do other systems:http://gliderpilot.org/files/FlarmFl...rformance/SeeY... So is it a fair competition if in early 2011 part of the fleet is allowed to share remote thermal sensing data? Like shooting fish in a barrel, not a contest. *To me it appears that we are allowing team flying - with good displays and coordination 2 or more pilots could team fly a whole contest season and never have to talk on the radio. *So maybe I turn my stealth mode on to prevent others from getting my data but that won't stop other pilots from team flying via flarm. I do not understand why we would introduce it "unrestricted" for 2011. *I realize we/Rules Committee do[es] not have familiarity with the system, but other countries do, can we learn from them rather than risk as much chaos? * Andy posted the UK 2010 flarm rules earlier in this discussion, to me it makes sense for us to start off with the stealth mode required too, that gets the anti-collision function and reduces the data sharing issues. This is my request to the Rules Committee. To Henry's point i do think there is some risk, especially early on of pilots focusing on their "show me where to find lift radar screen" that they don't look out the window for the non flarm guys as much. Ironically could be more dangerous. * * omg I am agreeing with Henry on something? ;-) Chris If seeing other competitors climb rates is a competitive advantage then that's an additional incentive for everyone to equip with PowerFLARM. That is exactly where we would have been with MIRA except that for the 2011 racing reason it's still voluntary and no pilot will lose a contest day to a FLARM failure. Andy (GY) |
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On Jan 9, 10:18*am, Andy wrote:
If seeing other competitors climb rates is a competitive advantage then that's *an additional incentive for everyone to equip with PowerFLARM. Andy (GY) So at what point do we just call them "cross country cooperative fly togethers" and remove the words competition and contest? The ideal setup is a duo discus with large format computer screens, the guy in back can just operate the computers and track all the other gliders and navigate to each marked thermal. Chris |
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On Jan 9, 9:57*am, chris wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:18*am, Andy wrote: If seeing other competitors climb rates is a competitive advantage then that's *an additional incentive for everyone to equip with PowerFLARM. Andy (GY) So at what point do we just call them "cross country cooperative fly togethers" and remove the words competition and contest? The ideal setup is a duo discus with large format computer screens, the guy in back can just operate the computers and track all the other gliders and navigate to each marked thermal. Chris That happens today. I've been SN-10 operator, navigator, thermal scout, glider spotter and tactician as a passenger. With an experienced back-seater it can be a big advantage - adding a Flarm seems a small incremental bump in capability compared to the value of adding a good back-seater in the first place. I will be very interested to see if the concern about Flarm taking most of the skill out of contest flying comes to pass. Good pilots today are skilled at finding fast climbing gliders within a few miles, just using their eyeballs. I don't consider that a detriment to competition. I don't consider GPS to be a detriment to competition either - or Spots, or radios, or transponders, or compasses, or variometers or altimeters, or supplemental oxygen or parachutes for that matter. 9B |
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At 17:57 09 January 2011, chris wrote:
The ideal setup is a duo discus with large format computer screens, the guy in back can just operate the computers and track all the other gliders and navigate to each marked thermal. And the GIB can also run the electronic counter measures and man the machine guns when appropriate. Jim Beckman |
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On Jan 8, 8:46*pm, chris wrote:
Kirk, My understanding is that if stealth mode is off then a pilot can see the climb rate of other flarm equipped gliders in the area: * So maybe I turn my stealth mode on to prevent others from getting my data but that won't stop other pilots from team flying via flarm. Chris That's the whole point: I you are worried someone will leech (got it right this time!) your thermal off FLARM, then you select Stealth mode and no one gets your climb info - and you don't get anyone else's climb info. But you ALL still get collision warning. So if all the hotshots are worried about team flying and leeching by newbies - all it takes is for them to get together in the bar before the race and agree on selecting Stealth mode. If anyone cheats and doesn't stealth-up, he still won't see anything unless others also cheat - and anyone with a Flarm could momentarily deselect Stealth mode and possibly catch the cheaters. Sure, people could team fly if they agreed ahead of time - but remember the flarm logger records the mode, so the probability of getting caught is pretty high - because anyone can at any time see that you are not in Stealth mode! Guys, you are overthinking this issue. At the ranges Flarm will show other gliders, you either are going to already see it cranking and banking in a boomer, or by the time you get there the bubble is gone.... Everyone just take a deep breath, relax, and let's go out and have fun. Kirk 66 |
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