Another midair in the pattern

On Jan 14, 7:21*pm, Bob Whelan wrote:
Folks wrote...
When I see the NTSB report 2 aircraft accidents at the same
date, time
& *place, it only means one thing. They came together in the air or on
the ground. On 12/20/10 in Madras Origon, a Taylorcraft and Cessna
came together while both were trying to land on runway16. The
Taylorcraft didn't have a radio! Please don't fly without a radio and
use itSnips...

I agree. *Snips......the addition of the radio makes things a bit safer. *Returning to
the pattern for landing and announcing one's intentions over the radio
enhances the safety margin unless of course there are aircraft which
cannot hear the announcement or make one themselves.

Even at uncontrolled fields, powered aircraft generally announce their
position and intentions on unicom. *Why do we in the glider world think
things should be any different, especially when we can't do a go around
on landing?...

Snips...

I'm not about to argue against the proposition that having and (wisely) using
a radio is not a (potentially, as distinct from automatically and inevitably)
good thing, but I do think it (perhaps) worthwhile mentioning at this point in
this particular discussion that some significant portion of the powerplane GA
fleet (e.g. that subset of those certified and built and remaining without an
electrical system) still do NOT have radios. Nor am I about to back any effort
to mandate they (or anyone else legally enjoying certain [large] areas of U.S.
airspace) be forced to do so. Life entails risk; flight perhaps more so than
if we choose to remain ground-bound.

Is there an honest pilot who doesn't admit we don't live in a risk-free world?
Is there an honest pilot who sees a way to get TO a risk-free world? Or do
some amongst us wish to mandate (in addition to immediately junking perfectly
airworthy 2-33's and every L-13 in sight [WARNING: wry humor nearby]) we also
junk every ATC-ed and airworthy powerplane lacking electrical systems?

While I understand the sentiments and pain behind lost fellow pilots (and
friends) - my own personal strictly-weekend-flyer total is nearing double
figures - I hope none of my living friends seriously would support such a mandate.

Seriously,
Bob W.

I have quite a bit of time in a Piper J3 and also in an Aeronca 11BC.
Neither had an electrical system but both had radios. The fact that
there is no electrical system is not a reason not to have a radio in a
powered aircraft any more than it is in a glider.

I'm not saying carrying and using a radio should be mandatory, just
that not having an electrical system is no reason not to.

A local glider FBO has no radios in its tow planes. Just one of the
reasons I don't fly there any more.

Andy

On 1-15-2011 03:06, Andy wrote:


I have quite a bit of time in a Piper J3 and also in an Aeronca 11BC.
Neither had an electrical system but both had radios. The fact that
there is no electrical system is not a reason not to have a radio in a
powered aircraft any more than it is in a glider.

I'm not saying carrying and using a radio should be mandatory, just
that not having an electrical system is no reason not to.

A local glider FBO has no radios in its tow planes. Just one of the
reasons I don't fly there any more.

Andy


When I had my Aeronca 11CC with no radio, a guy in a low wing Piper
tried to mid air me twice while in the pattern, with me observing him
while making my evasive manuevers. After finally getting on the ground
and walking up to him as he was fueling up, I asked if he ever SAW me.
His first answer was, "Weren't you on the radio?" At this point I
explained that not all planes have elctrical systems and/or radios.
Then I asked him while on short final, he decided to turn at me as I had
just started my base leg. His answer was that at an uncontrolled
airport, all turns were to be made to the left when going around. I
asked him if it might have been better to proceed straight ahead and
climb and re-enter on the crosswind leg. He said, ya that probably
would have been better.

My point is, having a radio CAN be a crutch and then assuming nobody is
around if you don't hear somebody answer your call. LOOK OUT THE
WINDOW. I'm not saying we must fly without radios, but don't assume
you're the only one in the sky on any given day just because you don't
hear me on the radio. I do have a handheld in my current (electric-less
airplane) Corben, but I still rely on visually identifying targets.
Radio is just a back-up to me...

When I had my Aeronca 11CC with no radio, a guy in a low wing Piper
tried to mid air me twice while in the pattern, with me observing him
while making my evasive manuevers.

Scott,
The encounter you had with the Piper driver is the poster child for
midair collisions in the pattern, high wing Aeronca can't see well
above and low wing Piper can't see well
below...............................Did the thought occur to you after
your discussion with the guy who didn't see you that your life might
just be worth investing in a $200 hand held radio?
JJ

On 1-16-2011 14:57, JJ Sinclair wrote:

When I had my Aeronca 11CC with no radio, a guy in a low wing Piper
tried to mid air me twice while in the pattern, with me observing him
while making my evasive manuevers.

Scott,
The encounter you had with the Piper driver is the poster child for
midair collisions in the pattern, high wing Aeronca can't see well
above and low wing Piper can't see well
below...............................Did the thought occur to you after
your discussion with the guy who didn't see you that your life might
just be worth investing in a $200 hand held radio?
JJ

Already had one. Just didn't work in the Aeronca as it did not have
shielded ignition harness. Ignition noise imposed on the TX audio made
it non-understanable to others (as tested with ATC in La Crosse)...and
this was not the classic case...I was above him and I could see him fine
and he should have been able to see me just fine, especially when I was
directly in front of him and above with nothing but sky behind me and I
was a traditionally painted Aeronca 11CC...kind of a Cub yellow and
maroon stripe (factory paint colors and scheme).

On 1-16-2011 15:21, Scott wrote:
I was above him and I could see him fine
and he should have been able to see me just fine, especially when I was
directly in front of him and above with nothing but sky behind me and I
was a traditionally painted Aeronca 11CC...kind of a Cub yellow and
maroon stripe (factory paint colors and scheme).

And here is a picture of my old Chief...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:0,s:0