Real Pilots

In article ,
Jay Honeck wrote:

That's sad. I see so many multi-million dollar boats down here in
Texas, I know it's not a shortage of rich people. It's...something
else. I wish I could identify it, and fix it.

Any yahoo that can open a beer can drive a boat, and can take all
their friends on their boat. Entry level boats can be purchased
for around the price of a new car. Planes priced in the same range
are 40 years old and not nearly as pretty as a boat and can only
take 1-2 friends. LSA was supposed to save GA, but the planes are
all over $100k. To really sell in volume, they need to be in the
$40k range.

I think it is a combination of the level of training required to
fly, and the value for the money. What looks better, a 40yo burnt
orange and lime green plane, or a brand new ski boat? Even new
planes look pretty shabby after the first few annual inspections
with loose screws and loose side panels/etc.

To stick with aviation, you really need to have the flying bug.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

I wish driving standards wre 1/4 as tight as flying standards.

As it was mentioned boating is easy and drunk boating standards are not
enforced. I was a successful boater at the age of 8 wth my most critical
skill being learning how to not be swamped by the drunk yahoos in their much
more expensive boats.

Piloting requires a committment and they are up front with the high cost and
committment and it keeps people form dscovering the addiction of flight.

In all honesty though i dont want to share the sky with someon who feels its
too hard to go beyond the cooler with the six pack and making their way
around slowly on the lake.


"John Clear" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Jay Honeck wrote:

That's sad. I see so many multi-million dollar boats down here in
Texas, I know it's not a shortage of rich people. It's...something
else. I wish I could identify it, and fix it.

Any yahoo that can open a beer can drive a boat, and can take all
their friends on their boat. Entry level boats can be purchased
for around the price of a new car. Planes priced in the same range
are 40 years old and not nearly as pretty as a boat and can only
take 1-2 friends. LSA was supposed to save GA, but the planes are
all over $100k. To really sell in volume, they need to be in the
$40k range.

I think it is a combination of the level of training required to
fly, and the value for the money. What looks better, a 40yo burnt
orange and lime green plane, or a brand new ski boat? Even new
planes look pretty shabby after the first few annual inspections
with loose screws and loose side panels/etc.

To stick with aviation, you really need to have the flying bug.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

On Jan 27, 12:37*pm, (John Clear) wrote:

I think it is a combination of the level of training required to
fly, and the value for the money.
To stick with aviation, you really need to have the flying bug.

And money.

Practically, I think you have to train and remain proficient in IFR.
At least that's what's holding me back.

Right now we're in "saving for the uncertain future/retirement" mode.

Big plans, if the economy doesn't do the full flush I've been
predicting for 10 years.
-----

- gpsman

In article ,
gpsman wrote:

Practically, I think you have to train and remain proficient in IFR.
At least that's what's holding me back.

Depends what the local weather is like. I'm VFR only, as is Jay, who
flies a lot more then I do. And he has Midwest weather to deal with.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

gpsman writes:

Practically, I think you have to train and remain proficient in IFR.

Eh? Not at all. Even in Seattle or such areas there are plenty of VFR
only pilots. Weather clears up in a few days. Cross country trips are
very much possible strictly VFR.

Of course, the above assumes flying for a hobby. Flying for
committments and deadlines, yes, IFR is necessary to be safe...or
safer.
--
Truth is for the minority.
~ Baltasar Gracián

(John Clear) writes:

In article ,
Jay Honeck wrote:

That's sad. I see so many multi-million dollar boats down here in
Texas, I know it's not a shortage of rich people. It's...something
else. I wish I could identify it, and fix it.

Any yahoo that can open a beer can drive a boat, and can take all
their friends on their boat. Entry level boats can be purchased
for around the price of a new car. Planes priced in the same range
are 40 years old and not nearly as pretty as a boat and can only
take 1-2 friends. LSA was supposed to save GA, but the planes are
all over $100k. To really sell in volume, they need to be in the
$40k range.

I think it is a combination of the level of training required to
fly, and the value for the money. What looks better, a 40yo burnt
orange and lime green plane, or a brand new ski boat? Even new
planes look pretty shabby after the first few annual inspections
with loose screws and loose side panels/etc.

To stick with aviation, you really need to have the flying bug.

John

Exactly so. The whole country has moved away from tinkering on something
as a pastime, to watching something as a pastime. Or at best, playing a
video game. Flying, unlike other motor sports, requires a LOT of
committment to get started, and to keep it up. It's relatively
solitary. Not for the modern American.
--
Write injuries in sand, kindnesses in marble.
~ French proverb

In article
,
says...


You make several good points. I agree 100%, although the whole pie --
not just some parts of it -- is shrinking.

That's sad. I see so many multi-million dollar boats down here in
Texas, I know it's not a shortage of rich people. It's...something
else. I wish I could identify it, and fix it.
--


To be sure, flying one’s own airplane to get somewhere does not appear to
be a very up-to-date passion. Though not a wholly sufficient answer, the
morass of the commercial flying experience today has certainly done its
share in taking the shine off of air travel. When I was 15, my first flight
was in a DC-8, and my second, later the same year, was in a Grumman Tiger.
I was one of the only ones in my high school class to have done either.
Though aviation was of course far from new, the experience of flight was
new and exciting to almost any individual. Today most people in developed
countries have flown by the time they are 15 - months! And they cried and
yelled the whole way. The way we are treated today adults too are crying
and yelling the whole way! Have we managed to regulate out of existence
man’s age-old dream of flying?

But wait a minute! If we are treated so badly on airline flights, shouldn’t
that spark an even greater desire for people to fly their own planes? To
some degree it has, and the bizjet market, while hardly booming, is opening
up to a broader demographic. You no longer need to be a billionaire to get
an occasional ride in a Falcon or Challenger. But the passion is no longer
there. Not for most anyway. And even in this context you are still just a
passenger.

A few contemporary social concerns come into play. Flying an airplane is
not a very "green" activity. This may mean little to many contributors
here, but we should not underestimate the effect the "green revolution" is
having on every aspect of our lives, and ultimately on our thinking.
Secondly, I cannot prove it, but I believe the post-911 security craze has
heightened the general public’s feeling that airplanes and flying are
dangerous. We take safety concerns more seriously every day, and the
intense scrutiny on safety of air travel has probably played its part.
Another issue is the cost. Flying has always been expensive, but many
people have less spare cash today for a passion like aviation, particularly
in light of the two preceding considerations. And those who do have the
cash are wary of spending it on anything that could be construed as an
ostentatious display of wealth. There’s a lot of "rich-bashing" going
around these days, and flying your own plane is a great way to feel
yourself in the crosshairs.

Then there’s a self-sufficiency issue, which may be the most important.
People of my generation take pride in doing something for themselves. If
you are not satisfied by the services you are being offered, do it
yourself. I laugh to myself flying over congested roads, thinking of people
sleeping for days on their suitcases in airport waiting areas while their
airline tries to come to grips with the bureaucratic mess of resuming
service after it snowed four inches - somewhere in another state! My
15-year-old nephew by contrast, far from flying in a Grumman Tiger, spends
his days and nights on X-Box, on line with his friends, playing tough war
games, shooting each others’ helicopters down. In real life, however, he
would not have a clue where to look if the car didn’t start, would not be
able to find a circuit breaker in his own house (and doesn’t know what this
item is) and refuses to fly even commercial flights because he feels it is
dangerous.

I’m sure I’ve only touched on the issue, and I may be mistaken on parts of
it, but I believe our society today is not at all conducive to the
interest, passion and overall satisfaction in an activity like flying. Do
children today still have dreams they are flying? Can society really wear
us down to where this age-old yearning no longer has meaning, and ceases to
exist?

On Jan 28, 7:40*am, VOR-DME wrote:
In article
,

I m sure I ve only touched on the issue, and I may be mistaken on parts of
it, but I believe our society today is not at all conducive to the
interest, passion and overall satisfaction in an activity like flying. *Do
children today still have dreams they are flying? Can society really wear
us down to where this age-old yearning no longer has meaning, and ceases to
exist?

Oh it exists and in many people who quietly in the background get on
with their flying.
But for the majority flying yourself is an uncomfortable thought with
papers filled with accidents sensationalised to the N'th degree.
The local Aero Club has a full and expanding membership. The
Commercial Pilot School is running almost full classes.

Positive mental attitude as Harry would say, people are still wanting
to learn to fly :-)

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:54:51 -0800 (PST), george wrote:

Positive mental attitude as Harry would say, people are still wanting
to learn to fly :-)

Harry Potter? For casting the Patronus maybe, not flying.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skaran/23299720/ Platform 9 3/4 today
http://www.evilwizardrock.com/
http://www.myspace.com/dracoandthemalfoysusa

You have touched on many good point, the most important (IMHO) being
risk aversion. This is everywhere in society nowadays. People are
completely accepting of the fact that the government should protect
us, from cradle to grave, so much so that the notion of flying a
personal airplane behind a piston engine and a PROPELLER sounds
nonsensical to many (most?) Americans. Flying might be dangerous --
and personal risk and danger are verboten in a society that mandates
bans on "second hand smoke" and requires seat belts in golf carts.

I call it the "pussification" of America. It's very, very sad, but
it's what happens when you have an ever-expanding, all-knowing, all-
caring, omnipotent central government.
--
Jay Honeck
Port Aransas, TX
Pathfinder N56993
www.HarborInnPortA.com


On Jan 27, 12:40*pm, VOR-DME wrote:
In article
,
says...



You make several good points. *I agree 100%, although the whole pie --
not just some parts of it -- is shrinking.

That's sad. * I see so many multi-million dollar boats down here in
Texas, I know it's not a shortage of rich people. *It's...something
else. *I wish I could identify it, and fix it.
--

To be sure, flying one s own airplane to get somewhere does not appear to
be a very up-to-date passion. Though not a wholly sufficient answer, the
morass of the commercial flying experience today has certainly done its
share in taking the shine off of air travel. When I was 15, my first flight
was in a DC-8, and my second, later the same year, was in a Grumman Tiger..
I was one of the only ones in my high school class to have done either.
Though aviation was of course far from new, the experience of flight was
new and exciting to almost any individual. Today most people in developed
countries have flown by the time they are 15 - months! And they cried and
yelled the whole way. The way we are treated today adults too are crying
and yelling the whole way! Have we managed to regulate out of existence
man s age-old dream of flying?

But wait a minute! If we are treated so badly on airline flights, shouldn t
that spark an even greater desire for people to fly their own planes? To
some degree it has, and the bizjet market, while hardly booming, is opening
up to a broader demographic. You no longer need to be a billionaire to get
an occasional ride in a Falcon or Challenger. But the passion is no longer
there. Not for most anyway. And even in this context you are still just a
passenger.

A few contemporary social concerns come into play. Flying an airplane is
not a very "green" activity. This may mean little to many contributors
here, but we should not underestimate the effect the "green revolution" is
having on every aspect of our lives, and ultimately on our thinking.
Secondly, I cannot prove it, but I believe the post-911 security craze has
heightened the general public s feeling that airplanes and flying are
dangerous. We take safety concerns more seriously every day, and the
intense scrutiny on safety of air travel has probably played its part.
Another issue is the cost. Flying has always been expensive, but many
people have less spare cash today for a passion like aviation, particularly
in light of the two preceding considerations. And those who do have the
cash are wary of spending it on anything that could be construed as an
ostentatious display of wealth. There s a lot of "rich-bashing" going
around these days, and flying your own plane is a great way to feel
yourself in the crosshairs.

Then there s a self-sufficiency issue, which may be the most important.
People of my generation take pride in doing something for themselves. If
you are not satisfied by the services you are being offered, do it
yourself. I laugh to myself flying over congested roads, thinking of people
sleeping for days on their suitcases in airport waiting areas while their
airline tries to come to grips with the bureaucratic mess of resuming
service after it snowed four inches - somewhere in another state! My
15-year-old nephew by contrast, far from flying in a Grumman Tiger, spends
his days and nights on X-Box, on line with his friends, playing tough war
games, shooting each others helicopters down. In real life, however, he
would not have a clue where to look if the car didn t start, would not be
able to find a circuit breaker in his own house (and doesn t know what this
item is) and refuses to fly even commercial flights because he feels it is
dangerous.

I m sure I ve only touched on the issue, and I may be mistaken on parts of
it, but I believe our society today is not at all conducive to the
interest, passion and overall satisfaction in an activity like flying. *Do
children today still have dreams they are flying? Can society really wear
us down to where this age-old yearning no longer has meaning, and ceases to
exist?