[USA] What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?

On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote:

At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. *

No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the
message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down

John,

What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the
non zero probability that a FLARM will fail.

As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message.

Andy

A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they
can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and
bank." It's part of the scrutineering. I don't think there will be a
huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers
and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor
issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow
them, but that's a separate issue.

I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much
more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money
already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue;
they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and
they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already
have flarm.

John Cochrane

On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote:









On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote:

At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. *

No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the
message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down

John,

What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the
non zero probability that a FLARM will fail.

As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message.

Andy

A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they
can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and
bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a
huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers
and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor
issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow
them, but that's a separate issue.

I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much
more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money
already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue;
they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and
they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already
have flarm.

John Cochrane

I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?"

As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students /
members. I love the OLC and am a participant. However, the OLC is
not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or
duration of a badge. The badge program really seems to be getting
slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. Newly
certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides
real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. There are plenty of
improvements that could be made to make the approval more user
friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming
the badge program please.

On Jan 25, 1:01*pm, lanebush wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:



On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote:

On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote:

At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. *

No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the
message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down

John,

What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the
non zero probability that a FLARM will fail.

As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message..

Andy

A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they
can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and
bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a
huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers
and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor
issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow
them, but that's a separate issue.

I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much
more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money
already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue;
they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and
they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already
have flarm.

John Cochrane

I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?"

As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students /
members. *I love the OLC and am a participant. *However, the OLC is
not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or
duration of a badge. *The badge program really seems to be getting
slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. *Newly
certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides
real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. *There are plenty of
improvements that could be made to make the approval more user
friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming
the badge program please.

Lane - +1! I love the badge program. Our pilots earned a lot of A,B,
and C badges at the club last year and hopefully we can do the same
next year. I also spent a fair amount of time working with our new XC
pilots and managed to get 100% first time approval on all of our badge
applications. We had a lot of fun!

Badges are a great tool.

They give the pilot motivation and structure to set out on a planned
flight as opposed to heading off wherever the weather looks good.

Don't get me wrong - there are days when just following the good lift is
huge fun, and some long and impressive flights are made on OLC that way.
However, the discipline of having to plan a flight - predict where the
weather will be, declare the thing and fly it is invaluable.

When you move up to contests the task often gets set for the purpose of
challenging the pilots. Contests are generally won in the poor
conditions where the pilot who knows how to keep going makes points.
Getting there takes experience that badges give.

So - for me badges involve a lot more commitment, and deliberation and
skill development. They teach the pilot to have a clear idea of his/her
intentions for the day. Without that I see people drift around for a
while and then lose interest. These skills will all stand you in good
stead on the OLC, but I advocate starting with badges.

Log the flights on OLC by all means.
Now - if it jusr stops raining here before winter comes around

Cheers
Bruce

On 2011/01/25 9:12 PM, Tony wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:01 pm, wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50 pm, John
wrote:


SNIP

Lane - +1! I love the badge program. Our pilots earned a lot of A,B,
and C badges at the club last year and hopefully we can do the same
next year. I also spent a fair amount of time working with our new XC
pilots and managed to get 100% first time approval on all of our badge
applications. We had a lot of fun!

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

On Jan 25, 1:01*pm, lanebush wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:



On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote:

On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote:

At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. *

No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the
message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down

John,

What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the
non zero probability that a FLARM will fail.

As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message..

Andy

A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they
can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and
bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a
huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers
and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor
issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow
them, but that's a separate issue.

I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much
more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money
already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue;
they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and
they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already
have flarm.

John Cochrane

I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?"

As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students /
members. *I love the OLC and am a participant. *However, the OLC is
not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or
duration of a badge. *The badge program really seems to be getting
slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. *Newly
certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides
real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. *There are plenty of
improvements that could be made to make the approval more user
friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming
the badge program please.

I'm sorry if it came out wrong -- no "slam" intended at all. And the
whole badge idea is great -- a set of concrete goals to help pilots
cut the apron strings and go on to start flying cross country.

I just noticed that more pilots seem to be moving straight to OLC and
contests and not pursuing badges any more. Kudos to those who do.

John Cochrane

On Jan 25, 2:01*pm, lanebush wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:





On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote:

On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote:

At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM
at World Gliding Championships. *

No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the
message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down

John,

What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the
non zero probability that a FLARM will fail.

As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message..

Andy

A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they
can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and
bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a
huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers
and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor
issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow
them, but that's a separate issue.

I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much
more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money
already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue;
they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and
they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already
have flarm.

John Cochrane

I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?"

As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students /
members. *I love the OLC and am a participant. *However, the OLC is
not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or
duration of a badge. *The badge program really seems to be getting
slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. *Newly
certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides
real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. *There are plenty of
improvements that could be made to make the approval more user
friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming
the badge program please.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I violently agree!
The badge program sets a series of good objectives.
UH

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:01:34 -0800, lanebush wrote:

I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?"

As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students /
members. I love the OLC and am a participant. However, the OLC is not
the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or
duration of a badge. The badge program really seems to be getting
slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. Newly
certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides real
inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. There are plenty of
improvements that could be made to make the approval more user friendly
but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming the badge
program please.

+1

In addition I'd like to point out that the badge system, at least as my
club uses it, is a direct stepping stone to competition flying. This is
because we start out by encouraging the use of predeclared tasks for all
XC flying:

- Silver distance: fly to a designated gliding club and land there

- 100 km diploma: this is a UK qualification that requires a
predeclared 100 km task to be scored. 1st leg involves simply flying
the task. 2nd leg involves flying the task and achieving a handicapped
65+ kph task speed.

- Gold distance: we usually fly that as a Diamond Goal flight and claiming
for both

- Diamond distance: again we pre-declare it.

Our prime reason for pre-declaring an xc flight and leaving a written
declaration at the launch point is safety: if the pilot doesn't return or
ring in after a land-out we have some idea of where to search. Secondly,
flying a predeclared task and making correct use of FAI or beer-can
turnpoints is good for honing and keeping navigation skills.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |